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Old 06-09-2018, 04:28 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13714

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Urban Institute is funded by for-profit health care corporations. They are not left-wing just because Wall Street democrats like them. They are swimming in cash from the richest and most powerful special interests in the country.
Urban Institute is left-wing. Party split and recipients/donations data:

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/sum...030709&cycle=A
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Old 06-09-2018, 04:41 AM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,961,631 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Urban Institute is left-wing. Party split and recipients/donations data:

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/sum...030709&cycle=A
By that logic Wall Street, General Electric, Walmart, United Health Group and other huge corporations are all left wing...

Its absolutely meaningless to label something as left wing just because Wall Street democrats support them. They are not interested in a national health care system. It would destroy their power.
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Old 06-09-2018, 04:55 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13714
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
By that logic Wall Street, General Electric, Walmart, United Health Group and other huge corporations are all left wing...
Do they all donate exclusively to Dems? No.

Read the data on Urban Institute afain, and stop posting lies :

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/sum...030709&cycle=A
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Old 06-09-2018, 05:01 AM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,961,631 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Do they all donate exclusively to Dems? No.

Read the data on Urban Institute afain, and stop posting lies :

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/sum...030709&cycle=A
They donate big, big money to dems who agree with them. There are lots of former rebublicans and former insurance and pharma executives who simply join the democrats and get instant support from the ruling corporate class. Thats why they are called Wall Street democrats. Do you honestly think Wall Street and United Health Group are interested in a national health care system which would cause tremendous loss of power for these people!? The gullibility is strong on this one.
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Old 06-09-2018, 05:41 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1003 View Post
I was referring to terminally ill people. End of life costs are outrageous (and, I am an old guy)
Yes, you were avoiding my question. So, the answer to those without insurance is to just die?
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Old 06-09-2018, 05:43 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohhwanderlust View Post
We need to let people choose to end their lives or pay others willing to humanely end their lives for them.

Many, MANY people would love that option, and it'd save a bundle.
No one can stop someone from ending their life. We have seen that is true the last few days.
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Old 06-09-2018, 05:51 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,199,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
As the Left-Wing Urban Institute noted:

In total, federal spending would increase by about $2.5 trillion (257.6 percent) in 2017. Federal expenditures would increase by about $32.0 trillion (232.7 percent) between 2017 and 2026.

https://www.urban.org/sites/default/...-Care-Plan.pdf

If you want to do something positive, then try implementing Free Market Reforms.

First, have the federal government withhold Medicaid funding from States that refuse to pursue anti-trust legislation against hospital cartels, and repeal or rescind the State legislation that created the hospital monopolies and cartels that illegally collude to illegally fix prices above market rates.

So you'd pay $2,900 for child-birth instead of $9,200 and $13,000 for heart-bypass surgery, instead of $29,000 to $42,000. Those are the market rates compared to the monopoly cartel rates charged by hospitals in my area. In your area, the market rate may be higher or lower depending on the Cost-of-Living in your area compared to mine.

Note that when the American Hospital Association lobbied the State legislatures in the late 1930s and early 1940s to enact legislation creating those monopolies and cartels, they argued that the free care they would provide to the indigent and low-income families would off-set the economic harm resulting from monopolies.

And now, they practically refuse to provide that free care, then complain bitterly and expect tax-payers to foot the bill when the do.

Once you do that, you need to eliminate hospitals.

Of all things, it was the Communist Bloc that recognized the grotesque inefficiency and ineffectiveness of the Hospital Model and applied a corollary of Capitalist Theory: Diversification & Specialization.

By deconstructing hospitals into smaller more efficient and effect specialized clinics and polyclinics, they saved $Billions.

After West Germany and East Germany united, the German Minister of Health noted how efficient the system in former East Germany was, and how much less it cost to operate. He then started shifting away from the Hospital Model in the former West Germany to the system used in the former East Germany and saved $Billions, averting a financial crisis in the healthcare system.

You don't have "In-Network/Out-of-Network" auto repair or body-shops for your auto insurance, and you don't have "In-Network/Out-of-Network" roofers and plumbers for your home-owner's insurance, yet you have "In-Network/Out-of-Network" health insurance.

Why is that?

That's because the American Hospital Association lobbied all the State legislatures to enact laws permitting it.

The State legislatures regulate insurance companies, not the federal government, so it has to be the State legislatures who repeal and rescind such laws, so that you have a Free Market.

And, before some ignoramus interjects the specious and facetious suggestion that you can't shop for hospitals while you're having a heart attack, consider that most intelligent people will already have selected a hospital, and even if they didn't, it wouldn't matter, since hospitals would now be charging competitive market rates, instead of arbitrarily price-gouging patients.

The State legislatures can also repeal or rescind the myriad pieces of legislation that drive up the cost of health insurance by requiring people to purchase coverage they neither need nor want. The vast majority of people over 40 don't need pregnancy coverage, yet they're forced to pay for it.

In a Free Market, you buy only what you need and not what you don't need. That will reduce costs measurably.

People used to profit off their life insurance when it was tied to their catastrophic health insurance, until the American Hospital Association lobbied Congress to change the IRS tax code in 1954 to prevent that. That law needs to be repealed as well.

It would help if the federal government would penalize employers for providing group health insurance. That would allow people to choose their own healthcare plans, while still allowing their employers to pay all or part of the cost as part of their benefits, which is how it worked up until 1946. For those who claim larger pools lower costs, then an extremely large pool within a State would reduce costs more than smaller employer pools.

Once you've shifted to a Free Market and allowed it to operate without interference, then you can determine where problems exist and move to resolve them.

That's much less costly than over-laying some half-baked federally run universal plan on a broken system.
I generally don't like re quoting entire large replies but this one deserved it. A lot of what you say is very valid. I just wanted to say that I want UHC but I am not wanting to simply fund what we have for everyone. That's where the problem is. We got Obamacare but we got none of the cost reforms like you note to keep costs down because the only ones behind Pelosi's door was lobbyists for the industries.

Candidate Obama was on the right track. Debate reform in the open and exclude the lobbyists. Too bad he didn't actually mean it.
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Old 06-09-2018, 05:53 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13714
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
They donate big, big money to dems who agree with them. There are lots of former rebublicans and former insurance and pharma executives who simply join the democrats and get instant support from the ruling corporate class. Thats why they are called Wall Street democrats. Do you honestly think Wall Street and United Health Group are interested in a national health care system which would cause tremendous loss of power for these people!?
Then it'll never happen. The Republicans don't want it, and it's looking increasingly obvious that the left-wing does't want it, either.

And FYI, Open Secret's Urban Institute's donations history goes back to 1990. ALL went to Dems except for one small donation to a single Republican in 2002. So, no, all those people didn't just "suddenly" become Dems. They're lifelong left-wingers. OPEN your eyes.
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Old 06-09-2018, 06:05 AM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,961,631 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Then it'll never happen. The Republicans don't want it, and it's looking increasingly obvious that the left-wing does't want it, either.

And FYI, Open Secret's Urban Institute's donations history goes back to 1990. ALL went to Dems except for one small donation to a single Republican in 2002. So, no, all those people didn't just "suddenly" become Dems. They're lifelong left-wingers. OPEN your eyes.
Yes it wont happen unless we get big money out of politics. Pelosi doesnt want it. She is swimming in cash from the donor class as well. Just like the GOP puppets. You have to be incredibly gullible to believe these lackeys want it. Of course Urban Insititute donates to Democrats only. Thats the whole point. But Urban Institute is funded by the super rich donor class who absolutely do not want a single payer national health care system. As the donor class love to push the agenda further to the right and create an "opposition" that also is deeply beholden to the corporate donors. These people are to the right of right wingers in all other developed countries.
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Old 06-09-2018, 06:10 AM
 
Location: Houston
5,994 posts, read 3,733,906 times
Reputation: 4160
Quote:
Originally Posted by cttransplant85 View Post
Who's paying for it? Medicare is the most expensive government program on the books now, when it only covers a small percentage of people and it is going broke in the next 5-10 years. The top 1% only brings in 17% of the taxable income so you will need to DRASTICALLY raise taxes on the middle class who is already struggling. Also, you obviously can't have these programs with an open border. There are all sorts of issues. Where are all the doctors coming from? Everyone with any little ailment will just be going to the hospital people will be dying waiting for a doctor while they fix an ingrown finger nails and the common cold on other patients. Vermont tried this an it nearly bankrupted the state before they did away with it.

People going to the doctor for any little reason would result in a much healthier nation.
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