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If someone really wants to know what a decent killing bullet does talk to the surgeons who operated on the Las Vegas crowd. You can't get better first hand information than that.
I can assure the readers here that it was not tiny holes through the innocents that killed and horribly mutilated them.
Basic common sense - the DC killers used a .223 and one shot....
Which means nothing regarding that particular round or the platform. 300wmag, 308win, 338 lapua, etc...all far more destructive than .223 in any tactical scenario. Why people choose .223 platforms is because they are easy for beginners, low recoil, and the ammo is super cheap and plentiful. There is nothing a .223 does that a .308 doesn't do better and at much longer ranges. Thing is, fire a .308 without a muzzle brake on it, and you are very aware that you just fired a serious rifle. Most .223 platforms you can fire hundreds of rounds without getting sore/tired. Big kid calibers from 300wmag and up...not so much.
And if you want to talk wound channels and killing power - go watch gel tests of 300 wmag, 308 win and 338 lapua comparing them to .223 tests. Ironically, politicians could care less about bolt action, long range, precision rifles. They only care about shortened barrel semiauto platforms and pistols. A 338 lapua can defeat body armor with steel strike plates at 1200 yards, but the .223...a rifle that is illegal for deer hunting because it cannot reliably 1SK a 100 pound target...yeah, that is the round we must fear.
Which means nothing regarding that particular round or the platform. 300wmag, 308win, 338 lapua, etc...all far more destructive than .223 in any tactical scenario. Why people choose .223 platforms is because they are easy for beginners, low recoil, and the ammo is super cheap and plentiful. There is nothing a .223 does that a .308 doesn't do better and at much longer ranges. Thing is, fire a .308 without a muzzle brake on it, and you are very aware that you just fired a serious rifle. Most .223 platforms you can fire hundreds of rounds without getting sore/tired. Big kid calibers from 300wmag and up...not so much.
And if you want to talk wound channels and killing power - go watch gel tests of 300 wmag, 308 win and 338 lapua comparing them to .223 tests. Ironically, politicians could care less about bolt action, long range, precision rifles. They only care about shortened barrel semiauto platforms and pistols. A 338 lapua can defeat body armor with steel strike plates at 1200 yards, but the .223...a rifle that is illegal for deer hunting because it cannot reliably 1SK a 100 pound target...yeah, that is the round we must fear.
A perfect example of how we can never have a decent conversation with the anti gun crowd. People such as that poster squawk on about AR15's, and the evil .223.
Instead of listening to those that know and understand firearms, learning, understanding and then opening up channels of knowledgeable rhetoric they just keep blathering about "gun nut" this or "gun nut" that.
A perfect example of how we can never have a decent conversation with the anti gun crowd. People such as that poster squawk on about AR15's, and the evil .223.
Instead of listening to those that know and understand firearms, learning, understanding and then opening up channels of knowledgeable rhetoric they just keep blathering about "gun nut" this or "gun nut" that.
I'm done trying to argue or explain.
There no point. They have their ideas and we have ours. Neither side is Changing their views.
The 2a was to give citizens the civilian equivalent to standard issue infantry small arms. So yes, I will accept no compromise to ever surrender my AR15.
AR15s have more in common with muskets than our 1st amendment rights do using phones, tv, movies, social media and the internet do with the town friar and movable printing presses do.
The 2a was to give citizens the civilian equivalent to standard issue infantry small arms.
Nonsense, citizens owned FAR more than standard issue infantry small arms, they owned the equivalent of fully functional battleships and tanks. It was for considerably more than just small arms, but we've allowed the government to erode the 2nd Amendment to the point where they are even trying to take those away.
Jeez. It’s a temporary ban. Credible reports of possible armed troublemakers. Most gun owners are responsible law abiding citizens. And they have a right to demonstrate peacefully like anyone else. But then you have extreme groups of people armed to the teeth who want to cause trouble. Some folks are getting unjustifiably hysterical.
Right, like my gun nut friend who posts a meme on FB saying the size of the hole a .223 makes is about .4 inches max.....and then is surprised when I post a photo of ballistics gel showing cavities 8 inches long and up to 4 inches across.
A gun nut is someone who lies out their teeth in an attempt to fool people who don't know things.
If someone really wants to know what a decent killing bullet does talk to the surgeons who operated on the Las Vegas crowd. You can't get better first hand information than that.
I can assure the readers here that it was not tiny holes through the innocents that killed and horribly mutilated them.
Basic common sense - the DC killers used a .223 and one shot....
(sigh) Another person who has swallowed the myth of the "assault" rifle. A couple other posters here have used this as well. Someone found a statement by some "trauma doctor" where this medical professional stated that wounds from bullets fired by an AR 15 were like 10 times worse than any other firearm.
So there is this belief now that an AR somehow magically increases the destructive capabilities of ammunition. This due to its "military design." Or its ability to use military type ammunition.
However the FACT of the matter is that an AR is no more or less capable than any 223/5.56 rifle, and "military " ammunition is the LEAST lethal and destructive ammunition that can be used.
Military ammunition is full metal jacket. Non expanding. It is by design made to just punch clean holes. The "tumbling bullet" is also a myth. It is not by design going to tumble.
The latter effect was a tendency for fired rounds to keyhole due to improper twist rates of barrels in early M 16 rifles. It was an unintended feature and caused early rifles to be horribly inaccurate at even short ranges.
Early carbine M 16s did this a lot due to barrel whip. A friend of mine had an early Colt CAR. That POS would keyhole targets with almost every round. If you could hit the target. The thing was pressed to put a round on paper at 50 yards.
The truth is the AR 15/M 16 is one of the most anemic rifles ever fielded as a primary battle rifle. In a nutshell. At any rate, moving along...this demonstration in VA rather spooks me.
I fully support the reason for it, but I do not want to see my fellow firearms rights advocates give that insane governor and legislature a reason to unleash force. I firmly believe that is the governor's intention. An excuse to flex state muscle. Armed with all the lies about guns and gun owners that are circulating he wants to see violent confrontation.
Then he can say SEE.. I told you so! If things get out of hand which they very well could it will prove the confiscation advocates case. Regardless of who fires first.
I'm just as angry and fed up with this gun ban nonsense as everyone else...but I do NOT want a shooting war. I have zero desire to have to aim my weapons at anyone. I dont think its come to that yet. But the torch is near the powder keg.
We firearms owners need to show that we are not nutcases. That we have just as much or more intelligence and education in our ranks as the far leftist crowd.
The truth of it is WE dont want shots fired . It's the VA governor who wants that. Not us. If shooting starts at this rally an armed citizenry will be over. It will be blamed on the gun owners whether or not the first shots fired came from the state.
The governor knows this. He wants this. It would cement his absolute power. And federal troops would probably back him up. This is very volatile. It spooks me. The governor tipped his hand with this state of emergency nonsense.
I dont wish to see him get what he wants.
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