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Germany has done better than any other major western country. I haven't seen anywhere where anybody analyzed what they did different than their French, British and Italian neighbors. Maybe they just aren't as social!
Germans are very rule oriented. I'm sure if their government tells them to jump, they ask "how high." This has allowed that country to be successful in times like these, but also monsters during WW2.
I wouldn't go to bars or gyms. I'm being conservative. I do carryout but haven't eaten in a restaurant. But the reality is that we have to reopen at some point. And all the studies show that when you do reopen you have an increase in cases. You wonder if we shut down too completely. The early studies showed the biggest spikes after reopening were when we had the most complete shutdown.
A few weeks back, I'd drive to Palm Beach County just to go to the bars. Shoulder to shoulder with friends and strangers, drinking, laughing.
I have been to many restaurants, I love eating out. Ordering never felt the same to me.
I went to a 4th of July party where some people came down with Covid-19 symptoms, but weren't tested. I never felt anything. They went on to recover quickly.
I know someone now hospitalized with Covid-19. He had businesses across the USA, and was flying a lot. He's 49, but out of shape/fat and a smoker. I smoke too, so oh well. It has been 28 days for him since onset of symptoms and now that he's in the hospital. Breathing on his own still.
Point is, I'm aware this is a real virus, but I won't let it control my life anymore. I'm prepared to see how my body does with it.
Are the other countries mass testing asymptomatic cases? 8% positivity down from 20% at the peak. It’s quite obvious if we were testing as much in March and April cases would have been in the 100k level easily https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/individual-states
"Other countries" tested much much more in the beginning when the testing in US was in a state of total disaster. Now, that they have very few cases, they obviously don't test much. Positive test rates are much much lower across the EU compared to the US. And positive test rates are crazy high in states like FL, TX, Az, etc.
P.S. Lastly, another example - S. Korea was exceeding US testing by orders of magnitude early. Now, that they had it under control for a long time, their total testing is not really increasing much at all from the early numbers.
Germany has done better than any other major western country. I haven't seen anywhere where anybody analyzed what they did different than their French, British and Italian neighbors. Maybe they just aren't as social!
Well, one thing they did really well is prepare. They had mass testing pretty much ready to go in mid-January. We had a "travel ban" in the end of that month.
UK botched the response badly in the beginning.
Italy was hit very very early and extremely hard. And they did underestimated it initially. With the older population, multigenerational families, and limited resources they've got into a horrible situation very quickly.
France, also kind of underestimated the situation, but later did bring it under control. BTW, we'll soon be exceeding France's per capita deaths. Even with the much better treatments that are available now.
A few weeks back, I'd drive to Palm Beach County just to go to the bars. Shoulder to shoulder with friends and strangers, drinking, laughing.
I have been to many restaurants, I love eating out. Ordering never felt the same to me.
I went to a 4th of July party where some people came down with Covid-19 symptoms, but weren't tested. I never felt anything. They went on to recover quickly.
I know someone now hospitalized with Covid-19. He had businesses across the USA, and was flying a lot. He's 49, but out of shape/fat and a smoker. I smoke too, so oh well. It has been 28 days for him since onset of symptoms and now that he's in the hospital. Breathing on his own still.
Point is, I'm aware this is a real virus, but I won't let it control my life anymore. I'm prepared to see how my body does with it.
I think this country has lost the value of sacrifice to attain these American freedoms. Meaning, many generations at one time or another had to make sacrifices that imposed significant strain on their "freedoms" and way of life. For African Americans, it only took a few hundred years to even be considered Americans but that topic can be tabled for another discussion.
WWII, the greatest generation, let's go there for a minute. Most Americans had suffered through an economic depression and horrors unimaginable to survive. So, when it came time to make the ultimate sacrifice (dying for their country and the American way), these folks unified and understood the price. It hardened them.
In the grand scheme of things, the Pandemic will subside, it's temporary deal and a bleep on the radar with respect to the time window in American history. I think Americans have become pansies, not in the sense of being afraid of a virus but unwilling to sacrifice a few months or up to year of discomfort of time if need be to eradicate/thwart a public health crisis. A bunch of individual pariahs and self-centered bastards...spoiled fckn brats.
Could we throw caution to the wind and go about business as usual? Sure, but think of the unknown future effects of even contracting the virus that remain a mystery...shingles, reduced mental capacities, etc. The virus could remain dormant for years then reappear/awaken or mutate into something drastically different and much more deadly. Who knows so the best long term remedy is to prevent the population at whole from being subjected to it, at all.
You are free to do as you wish but contracting the virus and being virus-free in a few days/weeks doesn't mean it won't have or impact your health or ability to live this "free" wiling lifestyle later on. It's an opportunity cost scenario in which I think precaution and a few months of sacrifice might pay huge dividends down the road.
I do understand the emotional and social toll on K-12 students. Still, it is temporary and the sooner we eradicate the virus, provide improved treatments, etc the better off we'll be down the road. So, chipping-in to make that sacrifice for a few more weeks or months isn't going to destroy anybody. I am former high school teacher and a parent with kids in schools. And it must be a locally and regionally based decision...the country isn't at the place with regards to managing the crisis. Too bad for the current administration, he gambled at the notion of ignoring and taking the virus lightly and it may cost him the Presidency. It actually should, even if the MSM is overreacting or was a "hoax", you treat any threat to the American way of life with equal footing. I thought he was a "business" man and that's how a prudent organization approaches the unknown domain. Even Reagan stated "Trust but Verify"...
Let me add this, somebody mentioned not paying property taxes or not providing equitable pay for Zoom classes. Teachers, most of them anyway, are significantly underpaid for their level of education and what they could potentially make in private industry. Benefits are doing a job they are passionate about, making a difference someone's life and a couple of months off during the summer. They usually invest every ounce of energy into their profession which makes for a long day (they have families too and are living beings....many parents and students don't think so). Most parents can't manage a household of 4 for a few hours a day much less a classroom of 30 for 6 hours a day. Hell, the deal you have now couldn't be any better.....for a few extra months. If not, go teach K-12, then get back to me.
Last edited by Big Aristotle; 07-20-2020 at 07:48 PM..
A pandemic with a 99% survival rate is hardly worth depriving kids of in-school education, sports, proms, or shuttering billions of small businesses throughout the world.
We could find a vaccine today and it would still take years to distribute to billions of people world wide.
You can’t run and hide from this virus, well unless you’re rich. Then you can relax in your mansion and hire private tutors.
How do you get the 99% survival rate? The only true method we can use is deaths over total cases. By Worldometers numbers, it is 143,834 deaths out of 3,961,429 cases or a 3.6% of cases end in death. In the end it could be 99% but it is hard to tell in the middle of the pandemic since there are always more unreported death and cases (just look at Swine Flu which had only a third of deaths confirmed at the time of death and not just looked at after the fact.) Also that is a painful 99% as many have serious health issues related to Covid during their recovery. Lungs from even recovered Covid patients look like those who worked in a coal mine or smoked for many years.
You have been panicked by the mainstream media. It's fine. It's expected. If you have human beings mingling, the virus will spread easier. Of course we all wish for this virus to go away, but that won't happen. Between on one hand, sitting at home and fretting about catching it vs going out and living my life as normal, I choose normal. I go to gyms. I'd go to bars if they were open. I go to house parties. I have flown commercially.
If your choice is to sit at home, well that's your choice. What I hate is people like you are trying to shut everything down to make it easier on you. When you never think about people like me who want to live our lives in peace.
The hospitals are fine here, I'm in Miami Beach, supposedly the next "Wuhan" if you believe the media. What you read is mostly just sensationalist garbage to get you to read some more of their news.
I wasn't panicked until about March 9th when I got notified about a meeting about school closing procedures. Mind you, this was just about two days before Trump gave his speech addressing the nation about Covid-19. Now I didn't think it was a hoax, I just was skeptic about Covid-19. That week I realized it wasn't just another SARS, Avian Flu, Swine Flu or Ebola. Hell, the day movie theaters closed nationwide I saw Onward, a few hours after I saw it, AMC announced their theaters would close nationwide. Why did I do that, Arizona wasn't bad at that point. That being much ado about nothing in the end. Boy was I wrong. I'll be the first to admit that. This was more of a threat and needed to be taken care of.
It wasn't the mainstream media that created my concern, but rather facts. I originally went by feelings and I was wrong as I said. SARS was just the tip of the iceberg when it came to Covid-19. I realized how bad it was. I'm let down that there are people that continue to deny how serious this is like I did at the beginning. They think it is if not a hoax, over-emphasized and a flu. It is not a flu at all. Some symptoms share a similarity to flu but it lasts longer and has other symptoms as well.
It pains me that people continue to choose to go to bars, gyms and house parties and tell us in the same breath that we need to get kids back into school. Our problem with Covid-19 back in April was that we allowed New York City's tri-state area hospitals got over-run. Now we see it with Houston, TX; Maricopa County, AZ; and Miami-Dade County, FL. Saying to return to normal the way our politicians did led to Houston, Maricopa and Miami-Dade Counties to issues with the hospital system. I hope you are right that you do not see things but based on your comments about we need to return to normalcy, I don't know anymore.
I wasn't panicked until about March 9th when I got notified about a meeting about school closing procedures. Mind you, this was just about two days before Trump gave his speech addressing the nation about Covid-19. Now I didn't think it was a hoax, I just was skeptic about Covid-19. That week I realized it wasn't just another SARS, Avian Flu, Swine Flu or Ebola. Hell, the day movie theaters closed nationwide I saw Onward, a few hours after I saw it, AMC announced their theaters would close nationwide. Why did I do that, Arizona wasn't bad at that point. That being much ado about nothing in the end. Boy was I wrong. I'll be the first to admit that. This was more of a threat and needed to be taken care of.
It wasn't the mainstream media that created my concern, but rather facts. I originally went by feelings and I was wrong as I said. SARS was just the tip of the iceberg when it came to Covid-19. I realized how bad it was. I'm let down that there are people that continue to deny how serious this is like I did at the beginning. They think it is if not a hoax, over-emphasized and a flu. It is not a flu at all. Some symptoms share a similarity to flu but it lasts longer and has other symptoms as well.
It pains me that people continue to choose to go to bars, gyms and house parties and tell us in the same breath that we need to get kids back into school. Our problem with Covid-19 back in April was that we allowed New York City's tri-state area hospitals got over-run. Now we see it with Houston, TX; Maricopa County, AZ; and Miami-Dade County, FL. Saying to return to normal the way our politicians did led to Houston, Maricopa and Miami-Dade Counties to issues with the hospital system. I hope you are right that you do not see things but based on your comments about we need to return to normalcy, I don't know anymore.
On the opposite side, I was sounding the alarm about Covid-19 back in February, on this forum, when no one was listening. It wasn't so much a partisan issue back then, you had elected Republican and Democratic officials downplaying it. I was concerned about the economy, and basically called on this forum the market crash a few days before it happened. But not to brag.
When the shut downs struck, I was 'fine' with it. 2 months inside so our hospitals could expend capacity? Sure, I'll do that.
But now we're in some other phase. We have obsessive compulsive people who won't rest until this virus disappears, and they believe any rising case load of Covid-19 is the worst thing in the world that justifies destroying businesses, keeping our kids from school, and ruining our typical lives and what we used to love to do.
News flash, it's not. This virus ain't going away. This pandemic has introduced a new virus into the world, and this will virus will be with us for the rest of our lives. Before Covid-19, there were 4 different strains of coronaviruses circulating causing people to feel ill. Now we will have 5 different strains, that's it.
Because it's a new strain, something our bodies never encountered, for a select unlucky few, it causes their body to go haywire. But for the vast majority of people, it's actually milder than the flu. I know many stories of people barely even feeling unwell, and testing + for Covid-19.
But either way, it's our reality. I don't think the solution is to permanently altering our lives and stop doing what we love to keep it slowly spreading. But that's not my decision to make for you, just like it shouldn't be your decision to force me into another shut down. No one is forcing you to go into bars, gyms, schools etc. Even if we reopen schools, I'm perfectly fine with parents keeping their kids at home. I just want to send mine back. I love my kids but this is ridiculous.
So I don't know which group of people I will be. I expect to be like the vast majority who catches it, barely feels it, and recovers quickly. But I could be in the group that ends up being hospitalized and dying. I made my peace with that. Even if that happens to me, I will not have one single regret. Why? Because it's inevitable at this point. I could self isolated and wear masks but will catch it at one point. Maybe not this year, but next or the year after. So either way, it's better to just live as you would, and not think about it. This virus won't disappear, so no use in any of this crap.
On the opposite side, I was sounding the alarm about Covid-19 back in February, on this forum, when no one was listening. It wasn't so much a partisan issue back then, you had elected Republican and Democratic officials downplaying it. I was concerned about the economy, and basically called on this forum the market crash a few days before it happened. But not to brag.
When the shut downs struck, I was 'fine' with it. 2 months inside so our hospitals could expend capacity? Sure, I'll do that.
But now we're in some other phase. We have obsessive compulsive people who won't rest until this virus disappears, and they believe any rising case load of Covid-19 is the worst thing in the world that justifies destroying businesses, keeping our kids from school, and ruining our typical lives and what we used to love to do.
News flash, it's not. This virus ain't going away. This pandemic has introduced a new virus into the world, and this will virus will be with us for the rest of our lives. Before Covid-19, there were 4 different strains of coronaviruses circulating causing people to feel ill. Now we will have 5 different strains, that's it.
Because it's a new strain, something our bodies never encountered, for a select unlucky few, it causes their body to go haywire. But for the vast majority of people, it's actually milder than the flu. I know many stories of people barely even feeling unwell, and testing + for Covid-19.
But either way, it's our reality. I don't think the solution is to permanently altering our lives and stop doing what we love to keep it slowly spreading. But that's not my decision to make for you, just like it shouldn't be your decision to force me into another shut down. No one is forcing you to go into bars, gyms, schools etc. Even if we reopen schools, I'm perfectly fine with parents keeping their kids at home. I just want to send mine back. I love my kids but this is ridiculous.
So I don't know which group of people I will be. I expect to be like the vast majority who catches it, barely feels it, and recovers quickly. But I could be in the group that ends up being hospitalized and dying. I made my peace with that. Even if that happens to me, I will not have one single regret. Why? Because it's inevitable at this point. I could self isolated and wear masks but will catch it at one point. Maybe not this year, but next or the year after. So either way, it's better to just live as you would, and not think about it. This virus won't disappear, so no use in any of this crap.
Have your kids made peace with the possibility of losing you? I lost my father early in life, and I know that had he been able to prevent his death and my loss of a parent and chosen not to do so, it would stay with me for my whole life. If you die, of course YOU will have no regrets, but I would expect they will.
Have your kids made peace with the possibility of losing you? I lost my father early in life, and I know that had he been able to prevent his death and my loss of a parent and chosen not to do so, it would stay with me for my whole life. If you die, of course YOU will have no regrets, but I would expect they will.
Yeah that's what I don't get. We have to remember that we aren't the only stakeholder in our decisions. That was why cases grew crazily in Arizona, Texas and Florida. The foolish decision to listen to governors and Trump that it is safe to resume the economy. It largely is like the Lord Farquard quote from Shrek before the knight battle to decide who rescues Princess Fiona for him. "Some of you may die, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to take." I'm sorry, we shouldn't encourage unsafe behavior. Until masks were mandated, too many people were spreading the virus. I've said that all along and I'm not changing my tune.
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