Just When Do The Rich Say: It's Time To Raise Our Taxes (border, politician) - Politics and Other Controversies -Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, Conservatives, Liberals, Third Parties, Left-Wing, Right-Wing, Congress, President - Page 37 - City-Data Forum

albert648 · 11-01-2021, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

Property tax is low in both AZ and CA

Can't speak for AZ but ask Gov. Newscum why it's basically impossible to build housing in California.

All of that regulatory overhead is passed on to renters in the form of higher rents.

InformedConsent · 11-01-2021, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

Property tax is low in both AZ and CA

Not necessarily. For example, in CA, real estate taxes are reset to be charged on market value whenever a property is sold.

FirebirdCamaro1220 · 11-01-2021, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InformedConsent

Not necessarily. For example, in CA, real estate taxes are reset to be charged on market value whenever a property is sold.

Still at 1% of price per time of sale, which is much less than states like NY, where my mother is paying like 4%

InformedConsent · 11-01-2021, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

Still at 1% of price per time of sale, which is much less than states like NY, where my mother is paying like 4%

That's where property values hit low-income Californians in the ass. When even a 1,200 sf 3 BR 1 bath home is worth $1.5 million, the RE tax on that is $15,000 or $1,250/month. That's charged in the rent and other costs/expenses are added to that. What you should be asking is WHY California Dem pols need to charge $15,000/year RE tax on a 1.200 sf 3 bedroom 1 bath home.

JimRom · 11-01-2021, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

No it isn't, because healthcare and education are expensive, so the only way for everyone to get access is via progressive pricing (i.e. taxes), with regressive pricing (i.e. set nominal dollar amounts), the poorer you are, the less likely you are to get access

The only people who's lives are improved by less government overhead are the wealthy

Healthcare and education are expensive because of government involvement, and you want more government involvement? Why?

GSPNative · 11-01-2021, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tijlover

Out of fear?

When the Rich were complaining about Roosevelt's Social programs during the Depression, which could cost the rich some money in extra taxes, Roosevelt told the rich: You either pay more or, through a revolution, you'll lose all of it!

And back then there was even a Communist party which probably really scared the rich!

They say "it's time to raise our taxes" every time they (meaning individual wealthy people) vote Democrat.

Go for it, Democrats- raise taxes on the individuals who vote for you (but not on anyone else). They want it! This is called "price differentiation", and businesses do it all the time--let people who are willing to pay more for a product or service (in this case, government) pay more than someone who resists paying more.

workingclasshero · 11-01-2021, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WRM20

Those programs are loved by the rich, because they make a ton of money off of them.

Everyone says "cut spending". What do you think ought to be cut? Can we start with the military? We could cut $300 billion out of that budget and never notice.

we should not need to raise taxes on anyone

and all we need to do is trim....why should every expenditure get a 10% increase every year?

where we certainly could cut is the big government departments

revenue is up since the tax cuts

we have a spending problem, not a revenue problem

we could cut almost every department by half

almost every dept could be cut in half other areas(depts.) that could afford cuts

cut the inefficiency...cut the unnecessary

for example...the federal department of education......why does it need 7000 employees?

1. schools are state run..they have state dept of ed's
...a. while we ''may'' need the feds to set a standard..... lets say 100 academics to set standards for nation wide
...b. so total needed 100

2. yes , part of the federal dept of ed is.....pell grants......
...a. ok maybe 10 people per state to process pell requests
...b. so total needed 500

3. that totals out to a ''needed'' 600 personnel, you could even double that amount and say 1200 ....not the 7000 people on the books that we currently have

no-one is saying you cant have departments...only let's be smart about how we fund and man them....especially TO THE MISSION of said department
.
.
.
.
department of transportation....
why are we continuing to fund a failing entity of AMTRAK...???
Amtrak (part of the DOT's 130 billion dollar budget)...over 50 billion is allocated to HSR and Amtrak
why not send Amtrak the way of CONRAIL??

department of energy....16000 employees plus 94000 contractors ...with a budget sitting around 35 billion....... do we really need 100k of employees/contractors to supervise the nations power grid??

DOHUD.....11,000 employees....meanwhile it was HUD with fannie/Freddie that caused the housing bubble/bust

DOHHS....67,000 employees...with a budget near 100 billion...and that doesn't count medicare/Medicaid

DoL.......17,500 employees.... with a budget of 137 billion.......17000 employees and we cant get more people employed in America??

DOA......109,000 employees....with a budget of over 150 billion

department of state (formerly known as dept of foreign affairs).......19,000 employees......55 billion dollar budget which includes some foreign aid too

Dept of treasury.....116,000 employees (86,000 GS employees and 30,000 contractors)....do we really need over 100k employees to run the treasury???... 22 billion budget....... or which IRS....92,000 employees, to process taxes...budget about 13 billion falls under the treasury dept

DOI (dept of interior)...budget 25 billion...70,000 government employees with an additional 20,000 contractors.......now this dept is not so much of a cut in its budget...but does it really need almost 90,000 employees???

everyone of these could be cut by at least half

workingclasshero · 11-01-2021, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

That's the wrong term as well. I'm a Social Democrat, I advocate government similar to what the Scandinavian countries have, Capitalism with a welfare state (and single payer healthcare)

those other countries tax differently from us...more regressive taxation...where the poor and middleclass pay a lot more in taxes than us

actually America's social safety net is extremely better than other nations

fact: 3/4 of our budget (3 trillion of a 4 trillion dollar budget) goes to social safety net programs

the budget is 4 trillion.....

2017 medicare was 691 billion...….prediction for 2020....963 billion......prediction for 2026....1.383 Trillion
actual Medicaid 2017 368 billion......prediction for 2020....450 billion......prediction for 2026....616 Billion

nearly a trillion dollars fy17.....and a predicted 2 trillion by 2026

medicare/Medicaid is over 27%.... medicare is a social health safety net for seniors....Medicaid is a social health safety net for the poor

80-plus federal welfare programs amounts to roughly $1.03 trillion

A list of all 83 federal welfare programs examined by CRS follows:
 Family Planning
 Consolidated Health Centers
 Transitional Cash and Medical Services for Refugees
 State Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP)
 Voluntary Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit—Low-Income Subsidy
 Ryan White HIV/AIDS Program
 Breast/Cervical Cancer Early Detection
 Maternal and Child Health Block Grant
 Indian Health Service
 Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) (cash aid)
 Supplemental Security Income
 Additional Child Tax Credit
 Earned Income Tax Credit (refundable component)
 Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP)
 School Breakfast Program (free/reduced price components)
 National School Lunch Program (free/reduced price components)
 Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children (WIC)
 Child and Adult Care Food Program (lower income components)
 Summer Food Service Program
 Commodity Supplemental 
Food Program Nutrition Assistance for Puerto Rico
 The Emergency Food Assistance Program (TEFAP)
 Nutrition Program for the Elderly
 Indian Education
 Adult Basic Education Grants to States
 Federal Supplemental Educational Opportunity Grant
 Education for the Disadvantaged— Grants to Local Educational Agencies (Title I-A)
 Title I Migrant Education Program
 Higher Education—Institutional Aid and Developing Institutions
 Federal Work-Study
 Federal TRIO Programs
 Federal Pell Grants
 Education for Homeless Children and Youth
 21st Century Community Learning Centers
 Gaining Early Awareness and Readiness for Undergraduate Programs (GEARUP)
 Reading First and Early Reading First
Rural Education Achievement Program
 Mathematics and Science Partnerships
 Improving Teacher Quality State Grants
 Academic Competitiveness and Smart Grant Program
 Single-Family Rural Housing Loans
 Rural Rental Assistance Program
 Water and Waste Disposal for Rural Communities
 Public Works and Economic Development
 Supportive Housing for the Elderly
 Supportive Housing for Persons with Disabilities
 Section 8 Project-Based Rental Assistance
 Community Development Block Grants
 Homeless Assistance Grants 
Home Investment Partnerships Program (HOME)
 Housing Opportunities for Persons with AIDS (HOPWA)
 Public Housing
 Indian Housing Block Grants
 Section 8 Housing Choice Vouchers
 Neighborhood Stabilization Program-1
 Grants to States for Low-Income Housing in Lieu of Low-Income Housing Credit Allocations
 Tax Credit Assistance Program
 Indian Human Services
 Older Americans Act Grants for Supportive Services and Senior Centers
 Older Americans Act Family Caregiver Program
 Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) (social services) 
Child Support Enforcement
 Community Services Block Grant
 Child Care and Development Fund
 Head Start HHS
 Developmental Disabilities Support and Advocacy Grants
 Foster Care
 Adoption Assistance 
Social Services Block Grant
 Chafee Foster Care Independence Program
 Emergency Food and Shelter Program
 Legal Services Corporation
 Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) (employment and training component)
 Community Service Employment for Older Americans 
Workforce Investment Act (WIA) Adult Activities
 Workforce Investment Act (WIA) Youth Activities
 Social Services and Targeted Assistance for Refugees
 Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) (employment and training)
 Foster Grandparents
 Job Corps 
Weatherization Assistance Program 
Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program (LIHEAP)

then you have the safety net of social security.....The FY 2020 budget, Table S-4, estimates it will cost $1.102 trillion

that's 3 trillion of a 4 trillion budget...….

you want to know why the debt is 22trillion and we are running 1 trillion deficits...toooo many social safety net programs

WRM20 · 11-01-2021, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albert648

False.

The government overhead is passed on to consumers. The end consumer pays that government overhead in the form of inflation and higher consumer prices. All of it. And more. Guess which class of people are disproportionately consumers?

In terms of percentage of income used for purchasing goods and services, the poor spend just about every penny they earn. The rich spend a fraction of what they earn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

we should not need to raise taxes on anyone

department of transportation....
why are we continuing to fund a failing entity of AMTRAK...???
Amtrak (part of the DOT's 130 billion dollar budget)...over 50 billion is allocated to HSR and Amtrak
why not send Amtrak the way of CONRAIL??

department of energy....16000 employees plus 94000 contractors ...with a budget sitting around 35 billion....... do we really need 100k of employees/contractors to supervise the nations power grid??

Dept of treasury.....116,000 employees (86,000 GS employees and 30,000 contractors)....do we really need over 100k employees to run the treasury???... 22 billion budget....... or which IRS....92,000 employees, to process taxes...budget about 13 billion falls under the treasury dept

DOI (dept of interior)...budget 25 billion...70,000 government employees with an additional 20,000 contractors.......now this dept is not so much of a cut in its budget...but does it really need almost 90,000 employees???

Let's see. The Department of Energy does more than supervise the power grid. It is responsible for building the nuclear reactors used by the Navy, it is responsible for all nuclear weapons programs, runs all of the national laboratories. 40% of the budget is nuclear related, a third is energy and environment, and science is about 15%.

Department of the Treasury is responsible for printing money and minting coins, collecting and enforcing taxes, paying all of the bills for the government, collecting all the revenue, and several other responsibilities.

Cutting any of those departments would not noticeably help the budget, and would have a deleterious effect on many government functions.

FirebirdCamaro1220 · 11-01-2021, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimRom

Healthcare and education are expensive because of government involvement, and you want more government involvement? Why?

You're incorrect, as countries with single payer spend less per capita on Healthcare than we do