Just When Do The Rich Say: It's Time To Raise Our Taxes (status, percentage)

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by FatBob96

It was considered a mental illness until "social norms" pressured the medical community to change their stance on it, lest be cancelled by the LGBTQ alphabet mob...(not to mention keeping that research funding rolling in)

That's right wing reactionary hypothesis, NOT fact

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by JimRom

Rich people - and anyone else who has worked to achieve success - realize that the government is a collective moron when it comes to money. Nobody should be willing to hand over hard-earned gains to a bunch of nitwits who are going to spend the money recklessly and not accomplish anything which actually improves the life of the average citizen.

Bezos, Musk, et al are much better guardians of their accumulated wealth than the government could ever be. They are actually using their wealth to employ people, thereby improving the lot of far more citizens than even an altruistic government could ever hope to - and our government is far from altruistic.

Single payer healthcare and subsidized college would GREATLY improve the lives of the average citizen. If you think otherwise, you're out of touch with the average citizen

[JimRom]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

Single payer healthcare and subsidized college would GREATLY improve the lives of the average citizen. If you think otherwise, you're out of touch with the average citizen

Single payer healthcare maybe. Subsidized college? Not an improvement. We need tradespeople, not college graduates. Now, if you're pushing for subsidized STEM degrees I might be able to go along with that. If you're talking general subsidization of college degrees, though, I don't see any reason the government should be paying for people to get degrees that are going to allow them to make an extra dollar serving coffee at Starbucks because they decided to get a degree in humanities which is absolutely worthless on the grand scale.

Even single payer healthcare would have to be done in exactly the right way for it to be a net benefit. We'd be better off getting rid of health insurance altogether than we would to follow the European model. At that, there isn't enough wealth in the hands of the "rich" to sustainably provide single payer healthcare to the nation. We'd be looking at roughly $5 Trillion per year to provide single payer coverage. You can only take so much money out of the coffers of the wealthy before you run out.

P.S. I am the average citizen. I'm not out of touch, I'm realistic in my expectations of what the FedGov is empowered to do.

[FatBob96]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

That's right wing reactionary hypothesis, NOT fact

What's a "fact" is that (barring actual hermaphrodites) there's only two genders.

If you want to test that theory.... go try to milk a Bull.

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by Leo58

That might be OK, as long as all income is consider equally. No lower rates for capital gains. No tax shelters. No deductions for mortgage interest or charitable donations.

actually what should be done (and was Trumps original plan) is have 3 brackets..(4 if you count the zero bracket)….set up like this
$0-75k....0%
$75K- 200k...10%
$200k-2m....15%
$200m+... 20%


eliminate the standard deduction (not needed if the first 75k is zero percent), bring back the personal(and family(for large families)) exemption(up to(phased out) at 200k, keep the child credit (up to the 200k), eliminate the EIC, and eliminate the AMT


eliminate capital gains, make it regular income.... this way a middleclass person who was able to put into a TB 10k/yr, working 45 years..having 450k in investments which only earns about 2-3% getting about 14k in interest per year, will be taxed at the bracket (either 0 or 10%), not at 20%+


this makes sure the poor up to middle-middle class don't get screwed...and it also elimates the "tax the rich, because they don't pay their fair share

[workingclasshero]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

Single payer healthcare and subsidized college would GREATLY improve the lives of the average citizen. If you think otherwise, you're out of touch with the average citizen

actually yangs policy of UIC would bew better and solve all the liberal crap of free this, free that, and free the other thing






while his math may need to be validated.... the UBI is still a better plan than the far left liberals wanting to forgive student loans, and make college free, and free babysitting/daycare, and medicare for all, and a few other plans


stimulating the economy would be giving everyone 10k or 12k (could be done as yang suggested of a UBI of 1k per month per adult)) then everyone could use that 12k to take care of ANY debt they may or not have...that would stimulate the economy

make it that the UBI is vigorously suggested to use for student debt payoff

I (and yes I am a conservative) have said for the last 2 years that UBI "could" be a good thing...but then it would REQUIRE the liberals to stop talking about all the other giveaways

I don't think that UBI will encourage people NOT to work.... probably just the opposite

it may encourage some people in the 55-65 age bracket to think about early retirement...just like lowering medicare down to 55

now what it is, is a better choice than all the other ideas coming from the far left, like M4A, free college, free daycare, etc

Yang's UBI could easily be the solution to affordable health care..affordable education/student loan crisis..and creating a viable savings for retirement, and personal economic freedom

Yang's original UBI plan was that ALL persons 18+ would get it, to include seniors, and it would replace welfare for the poor/workingpoor

Yang's plan had it paid for by the savings from welfare and a 10% VAT

do you have an adult (18+) child still in the home??
do you have health care costs that dig into your savings??
do you still have any tuition loans out??

here is what I thought of Yang's plan (this is going back to when he was still in the race)
Yang's UBI could easily be the solution to affordable health care..affordable education/student loan crisis..and creating a viable savings for retirement, and personal economic freedom

The concept of UBI is certainly a nice thing....and it is certainly the smartest, most logical of all the wild ideas of the fascist liberals

for example:
I work, have a wife, and my daughter turned 19 back in January
and even though I make 70k/yr a extra 3k/month (3 people over 18 in the household) would be a great thing......especially if it is like welfare (not taxed) and not considered additional income (Like SS)

and it answers the problem of affordable medical care..affordable education...affordable childcare...and student loans debts...…...how you say?

well let's look at a example...
I work, have a wife, 4 kids and my oldest daughter turned 19 back in January, and is in her 1st year of college, and even though I make 70k/yr...……..
UBI would be an extra 3k/month (3 people over 18 in the household)……….

that's 1k for my daughter PER MONTH for college (local CC is offering 500 per semester)
that's 1k for daycare/school activities/wife's student loan PER MONTH
and 1k more for a health insurance Cadillac plan so that takes care of my family premium

imagine that...UBI out does bernies/beth/Harris's plans of M4A/free college/free daycare/student loan payoff

this would also take care of the people who wish to retire early (before 65) as many people are out there ready to retire at 55-60 but are still working ONLY for healthcare

THIS is something even Trump could have suggested, and Biden could suggest

now Yang's math (how to pay for it) does need to be tweaked and validated, because I believe he is under estimating the cost/savings ratio

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

actually yangs policy of UIC would bew better and solve all the liberal crap of free this, free that, and free the other thing






while his math may need to be validated.... the UBI is still a better plan than the far left liberals wanting to forgive student loans, and make college free, and free babysitting/daycare, and medicare for all, and a few other plans


stimulating the economy would be giving everyone 10k or 12k (could be done as yang suggested of a UBI of 1k per month per adult)) then everyone could use that 12k to take care of ANY debt they may or not have...that would stimulate the economy

make it that the UBI is vigorously suggested to use for student debt payoff

I (and yes I am a conservative) have said for the last 2 years that UBI "could" be a good thing...but then it would REQUIRE the liberals to stop talking about all the other giveaways

I don't think that UBI will encourage people NOT to work.... probably just the opposite

it may encourage some people in the 55-65 age bracket to think about early retirement...just like lowering medicare down to 55

now what it is, is a better choice than all the other ideas coming from the far left, like M4A, free college, free daycare, etc

Yang's UBI could easily be the solution to affordable health care..affordable education/student loan crisis..and creating a viable savings for retirement, and personal economic freedom

Yang's original UBI plan was that ALL persons 18+ would get it, to include seniors, and it would replace welfare for the poor/workingpoor

Yang's plan had it paid for by the savings from welfare and a 10% VAT

do you have an adult (18+) child still in the home??
do you have health care costs that dig into your savings??
do you still have any tuition loans out??

here is what I thought of Yang's plan (this is going back to when he was still in the race)
Yang's UBI could easily be the solution to affordable health care..affordable education/student loan crisis..and creating a viable savings for retirement, and personal economic freedom

The concept of UBI is certainly a nice thing....and it is certainly the smartest, most logical of all the wild ideas of the fascist liberals

for example:
I work, have a wife, and my daughter turned 19 back in January
and even though I make 70k/yr a extra 3k/month (3 people over 18 in the household) would be a great thing......especially if it is like welfare (not taxed) and not considered additional income (Like SS)

and it answers the problem of affordable medical care..affordable education...affordable childcare...and student loans debts...…...how you say?

well let's look at a example...
I work, have a wife, 4 kids and my oldest daughter turned 19 back in January, and is in her 1st year of college, and even though I make 70k/yr...……..
UBI would be an extra 3k/month (3 people over 18 in the household)……….

that's 1k for my daughter PER MONTH for college (local CC is offering 500 per semester)
that's 1k for daycare/school activities/wife's student loan PER MONTH
and 1k more for a health insurance Cadillac plan so that takes care of my family premium

imagine that...UBI out does bernies/beth/Harris's plans of M4A/free college/free daycare/student loan payoff

this would also take care of the people who wish to retire early (before 65) as many people are out there ready to retire at 55-60 but are still working ONLY for healthcare

THIS is something even Trump could have suggested, and Biden could suggest

now Yang's math (how to pay for it) does need to be tweaked and validated, because I believe he is under estimating the cost/savings ratio

The problem with UBI when it comes to paying for Healthcare or education is you still have to deal with a regressive pricing structure (i.e. the same nominal dollar amount, which is regressive, because it's a higher percentage of a persons income the less they make)

[InformedConsent]

Originally Posted by workingclasshero

actually what should be done (and was Trumps original plan) is have 3 brackets..(4 if you count the zero bracket)….set up like this
$0-75k....0%
$75K- 200k...10%
$200k-2m....15%
$200m+... 20%


eliminate the standard deduction (not needed if the first 75k is zero percent), bring back the personal(and family(for large families)) exemption(up to(phased out) at 200k, keep the child credit (up to the 200k), eliminate the EIC, and eliminate the AMT


eliminate capital gains, make it regular income.... this way a middleclass person who was able to put into a TB 10k/yr, working 45 years..having 450k in investments which only earns about 2-3% getting about 14k in interest per year, will be taxed at the bracket (either 0 or 10%), not at 20%+


this makes sure the poor up to middle-middle class don't get screwed...and it also elimates the "tax the rich, because they don't pay their fair share

End refundable tax credits.

[albert648]

Originally Posted by FirebirdCamaro1220

Single payer healthcare and subsidized college would GREATLY improve the lives of the average citizen. If you think otherwise, you're out of touch with the average citizen

Single Payer - Hard Pass. I like having options. I don't want the same bureaucrats who think I need to get insurance for a flu shot to be responsible for my health insurance.
Subsidized college - Subsidies for college is the reason why it's so expensive.

The average citizen's life is not improved by more government overhead. Their lives are improved by less government overhead.

[FirebirdCamaro1220]

Originally Posted by albert648

Single Payer - Hard Pass. I like having options. I don't want the same bureaucrats who think I need to get insurance for a flu shot to be responsible for my health insurance.
Subsidized college - Subsidies for college is the reason why it's so expensive.

The average citizen's life is not improved by more government overhead. Their lives are improved by less government overhead.

No it isn't, because healthcare and education are expensive, so the only way for everyone to get access is via progressive pricing (i.e. taxes), with regressive pricing (i.e. set nominal dollar amounts), the poorer you are, the less likely you are to get access

The only people who's lives are improved by less government overhead are the wealthy