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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 190 39.34%
No 247 51.14%
Unsure 46 9.52%
Voters: 483. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-19-2024, 06:02 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,593 posts, read 17,323,449 times
Reputation: 37363

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adhom View Post
How many people are naive enough to believe if Ukraine loses, NATO and Russia will just magically make up? It will become a new Cold War and end up in a hot war. So Russians are really confident in winning a direct war against NATO?
Russia is in a heck of a spot. If they pull out of Ukraine now, they would almost certainly lose Crimea. That would be a disaster, as seen by Russia.
So they have started a war which is devouring them economically. They couldn't possibly fight a determined NATO, so they are hoping to grind down Ukraine until Trump takes office and "orders" Ukraine to stop resisting. I don't think there is much hope for that, though, so however it turns out it will not be pretty for Russia.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Adhom View Post
You know nuclear war is a choice? Putin declared a bunch of red lines that NATO can't cross or else he will go nuclear and they were crossed and we are still having a conventional war.

Only simple minded people believe Putin's nuclear threats at this point.
Yeah. As General Ben Hodges pointed out, it would not even be necessary to use nuclear weapons against Russia. We have all seen that Russian air defenses are not up to par; stealth aircraft could just power in, do what they need to do, and power out.
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Old 04-20-2024, 06:05 AM
 
26,535 posts, read 15,102,432 times
Reputation: 14681
First time a long range Russian strategic bomber went down in the war. Ukraine says they shot it down, Russia said there was a malfunction. Euro News says they can't confirm how it went down, just that it went down.

There was no ammunition left on board per Russia.

Russia has evacuated 3 of the 4 downed crew from behind Ukrainian lines.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitic...-moscow-denies
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Old 04-20-2024, 07:27 AM
 
19,066 posts, read 27,642,285 times
Reputation: 20283
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
First time a long range Russian strategic bomber went down in the war. Ukraine says they shot it down, Russia said there was a malfunction. Euro News says they can't confirm how it went down, just that it went down.

There was no ammunition left on board per Russia.

Russia has evacuated 3 of the 4 downed crew from behind Ukrainian lines.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitic...-moscow-denies
Actually, 400 km from the front line. Now, needs to be checked if Ukraine even has ground to air missiles capable of such distance and precision. As they sure do not have jet capable of this.
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Old 04-20-2024, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Port Charlotte FL
4,879 posts, read 2,684,173 times
Reputation: 7730
the Ukraine aid bill just passed in the house..look out Rooskies..we're coming for ya..
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Old 04-20-2024, 12:23 PM
bu2
 
24,119 posts, read 14,913,477 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
Most countries expand their economy while at war. Germany included. Look it up; pick your own country and your own war..
That's because war expends the countries financial reserves and turns it into GDP.
Only at the end does the GDP suddenly reverse as the country runs out of funds.


Russia is dying.
Ukraine is not spending their own money. They never had much, anyway.
https://thehill.com/opinion/internat...at-happen-now/

Article seems pretty optimistic, saying Ukraine can win in a year with financial support, but it does point out the difficulties Russia is having.

"...Oil revenues are higher now than they were before the war, funding Russia’s military output. Russia is now organized on a complete war footing.

Still, its capacity to sustain its current efforts may be dwindling. Russian industry will only be able to produce about one-third of the 152 mm artillery rounds required by its Ministry of Defense for 2024. Supply chain bottlenecks and Western sanctions have driven up the cost of new components by as much as 30 percent. Many of its systems are outdated — six out of seven new Russian tanks used in 2023 were refurbished. While Russia has far outpaced Ukraine’s production of artillery shells, it will start running low on artillery guns next year. Moscow also faces looming manpower challenges and has increasingly relied on convicts and foreign mercenaries to replace its massive battlefield losses...."
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Old 04-20-2024, 01:36 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,593 posts, read 17,323,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
..........."...Oil revenues are higher now than they were before the war, funding Russia’s military output. Russia is now organized on a complete war footing.......
For Russia, pivoting to new oil customers was easy. Put it on ships and send it away.
For gas, it is not so easy. Gas needs pipelines, and most of those going to Europe are out of service. As a result, natural gas exports have shrunk 42%. Has to be a little frustrating for a country with the world's largest supply of natural gas.


The war footing economy results in an increased GDP because Russian economic reserves are being used to produce war material. Meanwhile, the high interest rates, and the number of bankruptcies in Russia indicates things are not rosy for ordinary civilians there.


Ukrainian strategy of hitting refineries deep inside Russia seems to be paying off. We've seen Russia go from being a place where the word "war" could not be used to being a place where the economy is on "war footing".
Russia would love to quit. They can't. Quitting now would cost them Crimea.
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Old 04-20-2024, 02:17 PM
 
8,957 posts, read 2,563,896 times
Reputation: 4725
The traitors in Congress voted for one final robbery of the people's money when it comes to the Ukraine scam. They should ALL be voted out.
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Old 04-20-2024, 05:14 PM
 
4,981 posts, read 2,719,229 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbythegreat View Post
The traitors in Congress voted for one final robbery of the people's money when it comes to the Ukraine scam. They should ALL be voted out.
Yes, this is indeed likely the last time for this before Ukraine collapses. One last time for the money grubbers. As for Ukraine's security, who cares? The money goes into the "proper" pockets one more time. Now after Ukraine's collapse we'll have the money to spend on our own borders (not holding my breath for this though).
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Old 04-20-2024, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Port Charlotte FL
4,879 posts, read 2,684,173 times
Reputation: 7730
the US yearly DoD budget is over 800 billion dollars EVERY year...60 bil to Ukraine to stop the real Nazis..you know, the ones from Russia, is a bargain..fight them in Ukraine or fight them in Europe..got any kids in the military?..get them ready for NATO fighting if you don't like what's happening in Ukraine..
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Old 04-20-2024, 10:52 PM
 
Location: Pacific Northwest
3,858 posts, read 1,794,978 times
Reputation: 5044
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbythegreat View Post
The traitors in Congress voted for one final robbery of the people's money when it comes to the Ukraine scam. They should ALL be voted out.
Is it really the final package of money for Ukraine though? I was very surprised by Mike Johnson bringing this up for a vote and the rest of Congress who went along with it and voted yes.
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