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I think while both definitely got a very short stick compared to the white settlers, the clear loser of them all was the Indians.
Slavery is horrible, and we should be ashamed as a nation of allowing it, but it's not as bad as genocide. When you're enslaved, you can still hope to be freed, sing, have a family, enjoy nature, and know you'll have a legacy (which blacks do in this country and Native Americans don't).
The Indians were basically exterminated like rodents. Could you imagine strangers from another continent telling you your way of life sucked, and you had to believe in their God, and follow their lifestyle, or die? If you DID do this, you still might die. White people embraced African American culture, and it's strong to this day, especially in music where it DOMINATES outside of rock. What do the Indians have? Place names? Casinos? Chapters in history books? That's about it. They're foreigners in their own land to people who are themselves foreigners from the other half of the world.
The only reason blacks are seen as being more oppressed is because they lived to tell about their plight. The Native Americans don't even get that privilege.
As for the user you replied too, the slave trade was basically a slower version of genocide. For every slave that made it to the New World, 4 Africans died. The Native Americans were being genocided too, just more deliberately and the Native Americans were fighting back, letting people know they wouldn't take crap. This is how it panned out: The slaves who were brought here were basically subjugated and in chains, with little else they could do. Many still tried to escape. Some succeeded. No slave rebellion ever worked(at least in the USA). Native Americans were also fighting back and losing. Both had it bad, but in different methods. Native Americans had their land taken away and many were killed and/or given smallpox. African slaves were basically kidnapped and/or sold out and those who rebelled were killed, others died on the ship, and like I mentioned before, 4 Africans died for every African that made it to the USA.
Last edited by green_mariner; 12-01-2009 at 08:59 PM..
i think some one needs a history lesson.
OK I'm going to use abbreviations if that's OK African Americans=AA American Indian=AI
#1not being equal as humans.AA=1 AI= 1
#2 restricted to and aria AA=1 AI=1
#3lost culture.AI=1 AA=0 they didn't loose their culture it is still in Africa.
#4lost religion.AI=1 AA=0 also still in Africa.
#5lost land AI=1 AA=0 also Africa.its one thing to be taken from your land its another to have it taken from you.
#6loss of language AI=1 AA= 0 Africa.
#7loss of history AI=1 AA=0 Africa.
#8killed in horrific ways AI=1 AA=1
#9racism still today AI=1 AA=1
#10 most hated now I'm not giving any for this one because this is one persons opinion.some could say the barbarians were the most hated.
#11all ways looked down upon AI=1 AA=1
#12thought of as a disgrace AI=1 AA=1
OK now lets do some addition.
American Indians 11
African Americans 6
why not the same because the African culture is still taught today.
#3: how did we not lose our culture when we don't know our culture. I never new they had hiphop and bet back then. Everything we do is american style.
#4: we never remembered our religion after slavery, and if so what is it?
#5:what land did we have in africa? As far as i know blacks ran into africa according to the bible.
#6:What is our original language?
#7: We have no history accept for slavery.
Also do you think god will let ya'll get away with slavery. We have been slaves under almost every nation. God said you will be punished for what your forefathers did.
And please don't say Indians have it worse now, we worked for everthing we have gotten. We virtually built the usa. Without blacks or Indians the usa we be way worse then the poorest parts in africa. Blacks and Indians were the first people in the usa. Ever heard of olmecs.
#3: how did we not lose our culture when we don't know our culture. I never new they had hiphop and bet back then. Everything we do is american style.
#4: we never remembered our religion after slavery, and if so what is it?
#5:what land did we have in africa? As far as i know blacks ran into africa according to the bible.
#6:What is our original language?
#7: We have no history accept for slavery.
Also do you think god will let ya'll get away with slavery. We have been slaves under almost every nation. God said you will be punished for what your forefathers did.
And please don't say Indians have it worse now, we worked for everthing we have gotten. We virtually built the usa. Without blacks or Indians the usa we be way worse then the poorest parts in africa. Blacks and Indians were the first people in the usa. Ever heard of olmecs.
Not to mention the fact that the African continent was basically divied up between the colonial powers(with a few exception, specifically Ethiopia). Native Americans and Africans both had their land taken away. Native Americans were driven off of their land and put in reservations. Africans were kidnapped and later on the continent was colonized.
Alot of people never think of the fact that Africans had their own language before being kidnapped and shipped to the New World or that they had their own culture before reaching the New World. There was more there than what some people would tell anyone. Unfortunately, most people don't teach that. What is in this nation now is a product of being in the New World.
That video was scary. I know alot of people died on the slave ships, and I know some captive committed suicide by jumping into the ocean, but I didn't know some people were just dumping people into the ocean. Sounds alot like the Holocaust when the Nazis used to just machine-gun people.
Last edited by green_mariner; 12-05-2009 at 11:00 PM..
I vote AI. While Lincoln was busy fighting wars that would lead to the abolition of AA slavery he was slaughtering AI in the west wholesale. Not a whole lot of people know that. Oh and yes America was built on the backs of AA but lets not forget the Chinese and Irish.
I think while both definitely got a very short stick compared to the white settlers, the clear loser of them all was the Indians.
Slavery is horrible, and we should be ashamed as a nation of allowing it, but it's not as bad as genocide. When you're enslaved, you can still hope to be freed, sing, have a family, enjoy nature, and know you'll have a legacy (which blacks do in this country and Native Americans don't).
The Indians were basically exterminated like rodents. Could you imagine strangers from another continent telling you your way of life sucked, and you had to believe in their God, and follow their lifestyle, or die? If you DID do this, you still might die. White people embraced African American culture, and it's strong to this day, especially in music where it DOMINATES outside of rock. What do the Indians have? Place names? Casinos? Chapters in history books? That's about it. They're foreigners in their own land to people who are themselves foreigners from the other half of the world.
The only reason blacks are seen as being more oppressed is because they lived to tell about their plight. The Native Americans don't even get that privilege.
I think its almost nonsensical to try and somehow rank these two issues in terms of 'who got it worse.' Both groups faced unconscionable horrors inflicted upon them by Europeans and Americans and its really meaningless to compare; they each suffered terribly in different ways. To try and say which is worse is to completely miss the point.
I think while both definitely got a very short stick compared to the white settlers, the clear loser of them all was the Indians.
Slavery is horrible, and we should be ashamed as a nation of allowing it, but it's not as bad as genocide. When you're enslaved, you can still hope to be freed, sing, have a family, enjoy nature, and know you'll have a legacy (which blacks do in this country and Native Americans don't).
The Indians were basically exterminated like rodents. Could you imagine strangers from another continent telling you your way of life sucked, and you had to believe in their God, and follow their lifestyle, or die? If you DID do this, you still might die. White people embraced African American culture, and it's strong to this day, especially in music where it DOMINATES outside of rock. What do the Indians have? Place names? Casinos? Chapters in history books? That's about it. They're foreigners in their own land to people who are themselves foreigners from the other half of the world.
The only reason blacks are seen as being more oppressed is because they lived to tell about their plight. The Native Americans don't even get that privilege.
Since there is no calculus of human misery there is no answer to a pointless question like this.
I'm pissed my ancestors deserted Scotland.
An interesting fact is that many Native Americans (especially 5 civilized tribes of Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Creek, and Seminole) were Confederates in Civil War. Stand Watie, a general from Oklahoma from the Cherokee Nation, was the LAST Confederate, along with his men, to surrender to the Yankees, a month or so after Lee did at Appomattox. Also, in Cherokee, NC area, Will Thomas, a white man adopted by a Cherokee chief that helped same many of the Cherokees from being arrested or shot still living in Western North Carolina, was also a Confederate, I think but not sure, Major over a band of local Cherokees and a few white area settlers, also surrendered after Lee did. He had to capture a band of Union soldiers to surrender to them. Having said that, some Indians did fight for the North, but lots and lots of them (if unable to avoid the war or were flat out loyal to the south) fought for the South. I am proudly part-Cherokee, all Kentuckian and Appalachian. The Indians (or Native Americans or First Nations peoples or whatever you want to call them) really got shaftet all the way around, from Columbus to present day, from Alaska to Tierra del Fuego. Something else interesting.... in mountain and upland areas of South (maybe even in Deep South), many people that may absolutely hate black people greatly love Native Americans, at least their culture and history. In much of the western states, I've noticed the opposite. People that live in many areas out there absolutely admire black people, many would love to know some, since so few live in many of the cow towns out there, but absolutely hate Indians. I think some of them think Crazy Horse or Sitting Bull or Geronimo is hiding out around next hill wanting to attack them and scalp them or rape them. I know these are generalities, but I have travelled extensively to 48 of 58 states in U.S. and 8 countries in Europe and Canada and Bahamas and have family and friends in many areas of U.S., so I have observed many good, great, bad, awful, and mundane things over the years. No, most of these places I haven't actually lived in, but I'm going exactly on what I've observed.
Nobody is "whining". The Native Americans have spoken up. Few people ever listen. Ever heard of Dennis Banks?
Yes, I've heard of Dennis Banks (and Russell Means, etc.) and I admire them on their stance on taking up for the Native American Indian, but I'm not too much on their left-wing politics. An Indian I much admire is David Yeagley ("Bad Eagle"), genuine Indian leader without the left-wing political crap. I'm part-Cherokee myself, and love anything associated with Indians and Native America in general.
African-Americans had it worse because American-Indians were free men with their own land and a family structure, culture and religion. African-Americans had no land or resources, were striped of their culture and religion. African-American slaves were whipped with the lash, and his dignity was taken. The slave was dehumanized and beat with the whip.
The American-Indian was allowed to live off the land, and had a healthy diet of corn, vegetables, fish and other healthy foods. They also built homes and villages in the vast desert of the west and throughout other regions America and raised their families The American Indian-made and wore beautiful clothing, beads and unique items of their culture.
African-Americans wore rags or loin-cloth given to them by their white slave owners and were forced lived in dirty, filthy unsanitary conditions on plantations. Their diet consisted of slop given to them by their masters, such as the pig intestines, the pigs feet and any other scraps the master would give the slave.
The American-Indian was annihilated by the white-man, but at least the American-Indian had the will and capacity to fight for his freedom, his land and his country land. The African-American slave couldn't even do that. The white man gave him no bow, no arrow, no gun...nothing. The slave couldn't even defend himself .
I'd rather had been an American-Indian, hands-down. And, as the motto on the New Hampshire license plate says or once said: "Live Free or Die".
Last edited by dorado0359; 12-27-2009 at 12:38 AM..
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