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Since a few posters have seen fit to revive this awful little thread I'm feel fit to repost a point I made before people stopped debating it the last time:
It's nonsensical to try and somehow rank these two issues in terms of 'who got it worse.' Both groups faced unconscionable horrors inflicted upon them by Europeans and Americans and its really meaningless to compare; they each suffered terribly in different and unique ways. To try and say which group had it worse is to completely miss the point.
Since a few posters have seen fit to revive this awful little thread I'm feel fit to repost a point I made before people stopped debating it the last time:
It's nonsensical to try and somehow rank these two issues in terms of 'who got it worse.' Both groups faced unconscionable horrors inflicted upon them by Europeans and Americans and its really meaningless to compare; they each suffered terribly in different and unique ways. To try and say which group had it worse is to completely miss the point.
Huh? Aren't these topics and events part of American History and taught in School. Why should the topic be stopped just because you say so?
Huh? Aren't these topics and events part of American History and taught in School. Why should the topic be stopped just because you say so?
You really just missed my point entirely, didn't you! I'm saying that the notion that you can meaningfully rank 'who had it worse' is, to be completely frank, utterly stupid. Both Native Americans and African Americans were subjected to hell on Earth, they faced slavery and genocide. These crimes against them can't be 'ranked' and any attempt to do so misses the real issues of importance: what was done to these people and what the implications of these actions are for today's world.
It's really silly to try and 'rank' this! What the hell is the point? Trying to rank them demeans what was done to each one, it turns what should be an intelligent conversation about crimes against humanity to a stupid shouting match about which group was more repressed. Their experiences were unique to them, they were terrible in their own ways, they were, in a sense, equally bad. There is no objective way to say one was worse than another, why would you want to? To say one was treated worse than the other doesn't in any way make the other group feel better, it only serves to downplay and demean what that group went through.
It's perfectly fine to discuss the crimes perpetrated against African Americans and Native Americans. We should discuss these issues, we should discuss what the implications of these crimes are for African Americans and Native Americans today. We should not be trying to say that one group had it worse than the other because they didn't. It's like trying to compare apples and oranges.
I think while both definitely got a very short stick compared to the white settlers, the clear loser of them all was the Indians.
Slavery is horrible, and we should be ashamed as a nation of allowing it, but it's not as bad as genocide. When you're enslaved, you can still hope to be freed, sing, have a family, enjoy nature, and know you'll have a legacy (which blacks do in this country and Native Americans don't).
The Indians were basically exterminated like rodents. Could you imagine strangers from another continent telling you your way of life sucked, and you had to believe in their God, and follow their lifestyle, or die? If you DID do this, you still might die. White people embraced African American culture, and it's strong to this day, especially in music where it DOMINATES outside of rock. What do the Indians have? Place names? Casinos? Chapters in history books? That's about it. They're foreigners in their own land to people who are themselves foreigners from the other half of the world.
The only reason blacks are seen as being more oppressed is because they lived to tell about their plight. The Native Americans don't even get that privilege.
... When you're enslaved, you can still hope to be freed, sing, have a family, enjoy nature, and know you'll have a legacy (which blacks do in this country and Native Americans don't).
Your making slavery sound like some sort of day camp! Yes, slaves sang songs, but they weren't happy songs gathered around the campfire like the slave-owners families. Slaves sang about their wretched condition and prayed to be free. You say they could "enjoy nature"...this is an insult. Slaves, worked in the damn cotton fields from sun up to sun down and were whipped with a rod, lash, or anything else the master could find to beat them like animals. Slaves didn't have any time or permission to "enjoy nature".
Obviously this is an attempt to get the Indians and the blacks to go at each other in a divide and conquer manner, when obviously we should all be pissed at the whites. That is the one thing all minorities have in common....our ancestors have suffered at their hands at some point.
Ok it was sad for both, move on this is 2009 do not need to dredge things up from the past, when so much is going on here in 2009 that we have to worry about. Worry about today, not the past!
Huh? Aren't these topics and events part of American History and taught in School. Why should the topic be stopped just because you say so?
They should be studied but to try to compare the two in terms of which had it worse---the American Indians or black slaves---falls more in line with race baiting. An atrocity is an atrocity and should be studied in terms of what happened before, during and after each era in history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tb4000
Obviously this is an attempt to get the Indians and the blacks to go at each other in a divide and conquer manner, when obviously we should all be pissed at the whites. That is the one thing all minorities have in common....our ancestors have suffered at their hands at some point.
Exactly right! Race baiting.
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