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Okay, I got it. I agree it was not genocide as defined here:
Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group.
Was more "relocation" than "extermination" with resisters being killed. In some places, entire villages were wiped out. More of a series of Mai Lais than a War of the Philippines, where actual genocide was practiced.
My wife's an Indian. I've never heard either her, her sisters, or our kids or grandkids call themselves 'Native Americans'; that's a term mostly heard in PC public settings, public speaking, or print, in my experience. In our family, it's only used in 'jest'.
I would imagine relatively few Canadian Indians use the term 'First Nations' among themselves, in private, either...though this is just a guess on my part.
You are exactly right... I'm part Cherokee myself, and I have not seen any Cherokee call themselves "Native Americans". I also used to visit my wife's family in Idaho (they weren't Indian but lived on the Nez Perce Reservation), and all the Nez Perce there, of whom I made many great friends and acquaintances, did NOT one time, that I remember, say "Native American". The only times I ever heard the term Native American is on tv, radio, or among non-Native peoples (white, black, Asian, whatever). Nothing against the term Native American, it is certainly an honorable term, but to me, anyone born in America, whatever the race or ethnicity, is a "Native American". Also, too many syllables (Indian sure is easier than Native American to say and don't take as long to write !). The only problem I have seen with the term "Indian" is that people from the Indian subcontinent are also "Indians". Anyway, I grew up with the term Indian, my red ancestors were Indians, not Native Americans or First Nations. (Actually, I kinda like the Canadian term, though still prefer Indian). Also, y'all might disagree with me, that's ok, but I don't like "politically correct" terms and things forced on me. Examples.... the term "Native American" is b.s. overkill. Indian is perfectly acceptable, "*****", "red ******", etc. are definitely not. To me, "Black" is perfectly acceptable, "******", "***", "coon", etc. are definitely not, "African American" is overkill. To me, "White" is perfectly acceptable, "Honky", "Cracker", or "Whitey", etc. are not, "Caucasian American" are overkill. To me, "Oriental" or "Asian" are acceptable, "Asian-American" is overkill, "*****", "***", etc. are unacceptable. I guess a better term for all of us is simply "people".
I thought this thread had died some time ago, which at the time I thought was unfortunate because I had never come up with a proper response to it until recently. So now that it back up, I'll give my two cents.
I definitely have to go with the aboriginal inhabitants of the North American continent (see why folks use native americans, type that a couple of times in a post). Slavery was horrendous, but to suffer genocide, ethnic cleansing, forced assimilation, racism, and destruction of one culture and heritage! I would take being a slave over that any day of the week.
I thought this thread had died some time ago, which at the time I thought was unfortunate because I had never come up with a proper response to it until recently. So now that it back up, I'll give my two cents.
I definitely have to go with the aboriginal inhabitants of the North American continent (see why folks use native americans, type that a couple of times in a post). Slavery was horrendous, but to suffer genocide, ethnic cleansing, forced assimilation, racism, and destruction of one culture and heritage! I would take being a slave over that any day of the week.
That is not how I see it. Black slaves basically had a genocide, but it was a slow one. How many people died on their way to the New World? How many people died before getting to the boats? At least 30 out of every 100 slaves died en route. Native Americans were getting killed because they refused to be anyone's slave. Sometimes it is better to die free than to live as a slave.
OK I admit I might be prejudiced because I'm part Indian (Cherokee), but here goes:
I think both sides were screwed over badly, but I do think the Indians got it worse. They had their land stolen and yes, there was a war of extermination on. Treaty after treaty was signed and the white man broke them because whatever land given to the Indians was later seen as valuable. Lands that were considered sacred were stolen, even after the treaties had been signed. One of the things leading up to the battle of the Little Bighorn was the entry of people looking for gold in the Black Hills, even though that area was sacred to the Sioux.
To be fair though, black people had it very bad as well. First they got sold into slavery in Africa, brought here by ship under conditions so horrendous that many of them died on route. Then once here, they were sold to slaveowners, forced to convert to Christianity, often separated from their families (if they came over as a family group, otherwise it happened in Africa). Subsequent generations were bought and sold with little or no thought as to whether or not a family group was being broken up, beaten, raped, and killed with impunity (which also happened to the Indians, especially under the Spanish but also the French, Indians, and Americans). They were considered less than human. All that is pretty bad in my book. Still, at least they had abolitionists and other whites who did care about them and tried (and finally succeeded) to abolish slavery.
It seems like everyone was against the Indians--even after they were subjugated, for years they were lampooned and made to look as bad as possible and they were considered less than human as well. As I said I may be prejudiced because of my heritage, I think it was worse for the Indians. Both the history of African-Americans and Indians show how awful racism can be--and is.
Rxpwas, this is my experience as well--I never heard the term "Native American" until I was in my 20s. My family was pretty assimilated but we still said "Indian"--and still do. I've never been insulted by anyone saying "Indian". I've always advised non-Indian friends to ask the person which term they prefer. As for confusion, when I speak of those from Indian or of Indian (Asian) descent, I use "East Indian". So far no one has been offended. I tend to use "black" since when I was younger it was considered perfectly acceptable. And if a black person is being trash I say so, but then I say something whenever anyone is being that way. I hate political correctness which is why I tend to get in trouble a fair bit of the time lol.
OK I admit I might be prejudiced because I'm part Indian (Cherokee), but here goes:
I think both sides were screwed over badly, but I do think the Indians got it worse. They had their land stolen and yes, there was a war of extermination on. Treaty after treaty was signed and the white man broke them because whatever land given to the Indians was later seen as valuable. Lands that were considered sacred were stolen, even after the treaties had been signed. One of the things leading up to the battle of the Little Bighorn was the entry of people looking for gold in the Black Hills, even though that area was sacred to the Sioux.
To be fair though, black people had it very bad as well. First they got sold into slavery in Africa, brought here by ship under conditions so horrendous that many of them died on route. Then once here, they were sold to slaveowners, forced to convert to Christianity, often separated from their families (if they came over as a family group, otherwise it happened in Africa). Subsequent generations were bought and sold with little or no thought as to whether or not a family group was being broken up, beaten, raped, and killed with impunity (which also happened to the Indians, especially under the Spanish but also the French, Indians, and Americans). They were considered less than human. All that is pretty bad in my book. Still, at least they had abolitionists and other whites who did care about them and tried (and finally succeeded) to abolish slavery.
It seems like everyone was against the Indians--even after they were subjugated, for years they were lampooned and made to look as bad as possible and they were considered less than human as well. As I said I may be prejudiced because of my heritage, I think it was worse for the Indians. Both the history of African-Americans and Indians show how awful racism can be--and is.
Rxpwas, this is my experience as well--I never heard the term "Native American" until I was in my 20s. My family was pretty assimilated but we still said "Indian"--and still do. I've never been insulted by anyone saying "Indian". I've always advised non-Indian friends to ask the person which term they prefer. As for confusion, when I speak of those from Indian or of Indian (Asian) descent, I use "East Indian". So far no one has been offended. I tend to use "black" since when I was younger it was considered perfectly acceptable. And if a black person is being trash I say so, but then I say something whenever anyone is being that way. I hate political correctness which is why I tend to get in trouble a fair bit of the time lol.
I think both side got screwed over, but in different ways, not so much better or worse.
Native Americans had their land stolen from them.
Africans were taken away from their land and their ties to Africa basically cut off.
Native Americans were driven to reservations.
Africans were made slaves in this nation, and the afterwards were stilll subjected to "restricted living" in other ways.
Native Americans often suffered genocide on their own soil
Africans were either kidnapped or raided somehow. If they rebelled against it, they were killed. Many died en route to the Western Hemisphere(30 out of every 100) and many were even dumped overboard.
Unfortunately, there has been slavery, genocide, etc., in all eras of human existence and by (and against) every human group there is. In ancient times, just a few examples, Hebrews slaves to Egyptians, Canaanites, Philistines, list goes on and on. Assyria practiced unspeakable cruelties against their captives. The Greeks and Romans brutally subjugated conquered peoples and raped and sodomized many little girls (and boys), and of course, the Romans crucified many, many people (including Jesus). In more recent times, whites enslaved blacks, whites enslaved (yes, especially south of the border) many Indians, as well as waged a war of extermination on many of them. Blacks in sub-Saharan Africa enslaved their own people and sold them to both white Europeans and Arab traders. Many whites (and blacks and others) were enslaved by Arabs and Corsairs and Turks and other Muslim pirates, especially off the coast of Irelans. Of course, the Nazi treatment of the Jews and the Russian pogroms, too, and also in WWII, the Japanese rape of Nanking and treatment of Chinese and Philipinos and the Bataan death march, the present day slavery and genocide in Muslim Africa of the blacks in Sudan and the people of Darfur, the list, unfortunately, goes on and on and on. Very depressing, but man's inhumanity to man is sadly the way it has been the last few thousand years. Too bad there ain't a lot more love in the world, then or now.
Good point, rxpwas. Just about every group has at one time or another, gotten screwed over by others. Virtually no one is completely innocent...it is part of human history. sad but true. Hopefully one day we will learn to live in peace with each other...it'll probably be long after I'm gone lol
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