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You're taking a life and deciding to end it. You take a life and then you make the "choice" to do so. Thats what murder is.
So how is it not considered murder? Abortion is taking a life. Just because a fetus is not born yet, does not mean its not a human. Thats how we all start.
We are all alive because our mothers gave birth to us and didnt end our lives in the womb.
Can someone tell me how Abortion is not the same as murder?
No, I seriously doubt that anyone could explain it to you.
Consider this:
Over 25% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage. No human intervention is involved in these miscarriages. This figure seems to be consistent over time, meaning that it's probably been this way forever.
Why is your favorite deity the world's biggest abortionist/murderer?
Can someone tell me how Abortion is not the same as murder?
No, I seriously doubt that anyone could explain it to you.
Consider this:
Over 25% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage. No human intervention is involved in these miscarriages. This figure seems to be consistent over time, meaning that it's probably been this way forever.
Why is your favorite deity the world's biggest abortionist/murderer?
Don't be a complete maroon.
Just as there is a difference between premeditated murder and dying of natural causes such is the difference between abortion and miscarriage.
I have had m/cs, I know.
Don't be a complete maroon.
Just as there is a difference between premeditated murder and dying of natural causes such is the difference between abortion and miscarriage.
I have had m/cs, I know.
And you completely missed the point of my post.
So, let me go over this again...
If life begins at conception and over 25% of pregnancies end in miscarriage, that makes god the world's biggest abortionist.
Where in my statement am I placing any repsonsibility on the mother?
If life begins at conception and over 25% of pregnancies end in miscarriage, that makes god the world's biggest abortionist.
Where in my statement am I placing any repsonsibility on the mother?
God is a myth and therefore cannot be responsible for anything.
As to the whys and wherefores of the causes of miscarriage, well those would be physiological. In other words, the mothers hormones/uterus/or the condition of the fetus itself. In none of those causes would 'choice' be applicable. But in abortion a woman chooses to terminate a more then likely healthy pregnancy.
The point is clear, abortion is about choice and miscarriage is about the lack of choice. The only thing they have in common is the end result - a dead fetus.
God is a myth and therefore cannot be responsible for anything.
As to the whys and wherefores of the causes of miscarriage, well those would be physiological. In other words, the mothers hormones/uterus/or the condition of the fetus itself. In none of those causes would 'choice' be applicable. But in abortion a woman chooses to terminate a more then likely healthy pregnancy.
The point is clear, abortion is about choice and miscarriage is about the lack of choice. The only thing they have in common is the end result - a dead fetus.
We don't always know why miscarriages occur. We can theorize that there were physiological causes, but we don't know. We don't know how the mental state might impact a prospective mother's physiological state, though we have ample evidence that high stress has a profound impact on hormone levels. So while "choice" might not be applicable to miscarriages, the "choice" that women make to abortion is usually driven by a keen understanding of their individual situation and how hospitable their lives are to a pregnancy. Inhospitable womb = miscarriage, inhospitable life = painful choice.
We don't always know why miscarriages occur. We can theorize that there were physiological causes, but we don't know. We don't know how the mental state might impact a prospective mother's physiological state, though we have ample evidence that high stress has a profound impact on hormone levels. So while "choice" might not be applicable to miscarriages, the "choice" that women make to abortion is usually driven by a keen understanding of their individual situation and how hospitable their lives are to a pregnancy. Inhospitable womb = miscarriage, inhospitable life = painful choice.
Not the same, though. A miscarriage is uncontrolled and unwanted. In abortion it is the pregnancy itself that is unwanted, but the outcome is controlled. To attempt to tie the two processes together in order to acheive a 'sameness' is ridiculous, and unfair.
Not the same, though. A miscarriage is uncontrolled and unwanted. In abortion it is the pregnancy itself that is unwanted, but the outcome is controlled. To attempt to tie the two processes together in order to acheive a 'sameness' is ridiculous, and unfair.
Miscarriages aren't always unwanted. And miscarriages and abortions have the same result, so comparing the two isn't ridiculous and unfair. What's unfair is that so many pro-life advocates (and I'm not including you, I'm well aware that you try to be moderate and flexible in your position) look at this issue from a purely theoretical viewpoint, rather than understanding that this is a very personal issue. A woman who's struggling with this choice isn't there because of theoretical considerations, she's weighing the real-life ramifications of continuing a pregnancy. She's real, she's alive, society has already made a significant investment in her life. How is it pro-life to discount the concerns she has about the impact this pregnancy will have on her life? Wouldn't it be more pro-life to address her concerns, to ensure that if she goes through with the pregnancy, that she and her child will receive adequate care and support? Shouldn't pro-life be about making life better?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richmonder27
You're taking a life and deciding to end it. You take a life and then you make the "choice" to do so. Thats what murder is.
So how is it not considered murder? Abortion is taking a life. Just because a fetus is not born yet, does not mean its not a human. Thats how we all start.
We are all alive because our mothers gave birth to us and didnt end our lives in the womb.
I think the supreme court arrived at a very reasonable conclusion. At the point the fetus can survive without its mother's gestational support, the fetus has rights. Prior to that point it may be considered a part of the mother. You would not consider an appendectomy murder because it destroys cellular life, and in a similar fashion terminating an early pregnancy should be the same in the eyes of the law.
I realize that many religions consider life to begin at conception and that there is a qualitative difference between a zygote and differentiated adult tissue (only one has the potential to develop into a human being), but there are good reasons for seperation of church and state and the law must be based entirely on logical analysis, not dogma and not political rhetoric or adherence to an agenda. Much careful consideration and deliberation was poured into the supreme court decision. It was not simply "slapped together." That was the case of a lifetime and the man-hours put into it reflected the same. There are endless nuances and considerations in this debate and the Supreme Court made an absolutely Solomonic ruling. I tend to agree with it.
Miscarriages aren't always unwanted. And miscarriages and abortions have the same result, so comparing the two isn't ridiculous and unfair. What's unfair is that so many pro-life advocates (and I'm not including you, I'm well aware that you try to be moderate and flexible in your position) look at this issue from a purely theoretical viewpoint, rather than understanding that this is a very personal issue. A woman who's struggling with this choice isn't there because of theoretical considerations, she's weighing the real-life ramifications of continuing a pregnancy. She's real, she's alive, society has already made a significant investment in her life. How is it pro-life to discount the concerns she has about the impact this pregnancy will have on her life? Wouldn't it be more pro-life to address her concerns, to ensure that if she goes through with the pregnancy, that she and her child will receive adequate care and support? Shouldn't pro-life be about making life better?
I understand what you are saying, and I do agree with it. To be prochoice until the moment of birth is shortsighted and hypocritical to be sure.
But I also think it is fair to call it for it is.....abortion does end a life - now, whether a person wants to view that as a potential life or actual life is irrelevent. A life has ended, and was ended by the conscience decision of the mother. The very act of ending that (potential) life should be done with the utmost gravity and sensitivity. It is not a toe nail, a lizard or any other weird azz thing used to deflect guilt. It is what it is. And I don't care where a person falls on the prolife/prochoice line -- it is a sad thing.***
Now, I do not believe it has much to do with m/c, abortion is chosen m/c is not. Regardless of the mental state of the mother. After all, if stress and a relunctance to parent where all it took to m/c there would be no need for abortions.
***I just wanted to add, that when I say abortion is a sad thing, I do mean it to encompass not just the fetus but the mother as well. I don't believe abortion is something chosen lightly for the majority of women. It is a sad thing that they were in the position that they had to make the choice to begin with, and it is a sad thing whenever a life is lost.
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