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then why not make it an informed choice that the father can also get involved with. if the father wants the child, the mother can always sign custody over to the father and be done with it as well. I sure as heck would have love to have been given that kind of choice.
but that father doesn't have to go through 9 months of agony, medical bills, prenatal diabetes, cramps, back pain, or if the pregnancy is difficult be subjected to lie on her back through the entire pregnancy, which leads to bed sores, poor circulation and whole crux of other problems.
What if the father was an abuser? What if the father was a drug user? What if the father was a drunkard?
I'm sorry, but the father of the fetus can only have one say: If he is going to help pay for the abortion or not.
Sorry, but until technology allows women to transplant embryos into the bodies of men so they can carry a fetus full term and give birth, it will still stand : HER BODY, HER CHOICE.
If you want a child, then make sure you have it with someone who is willing and ready to have a child.
but that father doesn't have to go through 9 months of agony, medical bills, prenatal diabetes, cramps, back pain, or if the pregnancy is difficult be subjected to lie on her back through the entire pregnancy, which leads to bed sores, poor circulation and whole crux of other problems.
What if the father was an abuser? What if the father was a drug user? What if the father was a drunkard?
I'm sorry, but the father of the fetus can only have one say: If he is going to help pay for the abortion or not.
Sorry, but until technology allows women to transplant embryos into the bodies of men so they can carry a fetus full term and give birth, it will still stand : HER BODY, HER CHOICE.
If you want a child, then make sure you have it with someone who is willing and ready to have a child.
what if?
what if the father is a loving man, willing to pay for the bills including the health care, does not drink or use drugs, and is not a abuser?
what if the father is a loving man, willing to pay for the bills including the health care, does not drink or use drugs, and is not a abuser?
Can men give birth to babies right now? No? Then too bad. You do not get to DECIDE what she does with her body.
Once men are able to get pregnant and go through all the emotional issues that are tied to it, no man has a right to tell anyone let alone a pregnant woman what she can or can't do.
Her body, her choice. If she doesn't want to carry a child around for 9 months, that's her choice and no amount of crying from the would be father is going to override that.
If the man is so willing to pay the bills and wants to be a loving father, there are millions of adoptable children that are ignored every year waiting for a home. He can at least make an effort to adopt one of them.
Can men give birth to babies right now? No? Then too bad. You do not get to DECIDE what she does with her body.
Once men are able to get pregnant and go through all the emotional issues that are tied to it, no man has a right to tell anyone let alone a pregnant woman what she can or can't do.
Her body, her choice. If she doesn't want to carry a child around for 9 months, that's her choice and no amount of crying from the would be father is going to override that.
If the man is so willing to pay the bills and wants to be a loving father, there are millions of adoptable children that are ignored every year waiting for a home. He can at least make an effort to adopt one of them.
This thread has gotten so far from its original intent, and now is merely the same old argument about abortion. The question again was whether or not abortion is murder.
Well in its most simplest form, abortion is murder. You are purposely taking the life of another. They already have laws in place, where if a man attacks a woman who is pregnant, and the baby is lost, that it can be called murder, or at least manslaughter.
The argument for such a law is, the developing fetus is a person. On the other hand, the argument for why abortion is not murder? Because it is not yet a person. How can both of those statements be true? Simple, they aren't.
If a woman decides she wants to remain pregnant and have the child, then the fetus is a person by law. If the woman decides she doesn't want to remain pregnant, then it is not a person and thus, can be aborted by law. So merely the desires of a woman is what lawfully defines a fetus as a person or not. And thus, the desires of a woman is what lawfully defines whether the killing of a fetus is murder or not. Does that not sound illogical to anyone else?
And really, thats fine. If we think abortion is for the betterment of society. I say we do it. I am personally all for abortions when it comes to rapes and incest. I could even make an argument for why abortion is good for certain genetic conditions. But don't pretend for a second that abortion isn't the intentional destruction of another life(otherwise known as murder). Because it is.
And if abortions are to be allowed, it should not just be because the woman doesn't want to be bothered at that time with having a baby. It should be because we believe it is better for the baby and society if it is not brought into this world under those poor circumstances. Because who wants a mother who is hateful, selfish, emotionally imbalanced, slutty, and stupid.
And if you fit that description, please by all means, get an abortion. Otherwise, stop making excuses for your behavior.
Last edited by Redshadowz; 02-10-2011 at 06:41 AM..
This thread has gotten so far from its original intent, and now is merely the same old argument about abortion. The question again was whether or not abortion is murder.
Well in its most simplest form, abortion is murder. You are purposely taking the life of another. They already have laws in place, where if a man attacks a woman who is pregnant, and the baby is lost, that it can be called murder, or at least manslaughter.
The argument for such a law is, the developing fetus is a person. On the other hand, the argument for why abortion is not murder? Because it is not yet a person. How can both of those statements be true? Simple, they aren't.
If a woman decides she wants to remain pregnant and have the child, then the fetus is a person by law. If the woman decides she doesn't want to remain pregnant, then it is not a person and thus, can be aborted by law. So merely the desires of a woman is what lawfully defines a fetus as a person or not. And thus, the desires of a woman is what lawfully defines whether the killing of a fetus is murder or not."""
YUP, her body , her choice....rubs repugs raw that women have a choice and refuse to be something besides breeding stock...
""" Does that not sound illogical to anyone else?
And really, thats fine. If we think abortion is for the betterment of society. I say we do it. I am personally all for abortions when it comes to rapes and incest."""""
Read the above sentence...no logic present. First, you call it murder , then you say it's OK???? The fetus ISN'T a person in the case of rape or incest???
""I could even make an argument for why abortion is good for certain genetic conditions. But don't pretend for a second that abortion isn't the intentional destruction of another life(otherwise known as murder). Because it is.
And if abortions are to be allowed, it should not just be because the woman doesn't want to be bothered at that time with having a baby. It should be because we believe it is better for the baby and society if it is not brought into this world under those poor circumstances. Because who wants a mother who is hateful, selfish, emotionally imbalanced, slutty, and stupid.
And if you fit that description, please by all means, get an abortion. Otherwise, stop making excuses for your behavior.
""behavior"
Yup, that's what anti-choice people want to control....women's behavior...it has NOTHING to do with "murder"...
OR they would NOT make exceptions for rape or incest....
I think people have to think about what defines "human," "life," "alive," and "living".
1000 clumps of non-differentiated dividing human cells that will eventually mature to become a human baby is life starting, but it's not human, and isn't murder if that process is stopped IMO. So life starts at conception, but being a human does not. I don't think a 2in fetus is human, so that isn't murder either. But I do have issues people that do late abortions. I think it's highly irresponsible for someone to use abortion as a form of birth control. If there's a case where there is rape, incest or threat to a mother's life, I think there's no question that abortion should be legal, but irresponsible people are the ones that make this a tough issue. On the otherhand, I also think that if i were to have the option of being born to a crackhead hooker or be aborted, I'd probably want to be aborted. It's a tough issue and you can't just paint a broad stroke over it as "murder" or "the right to choose."
You're taking a life and deciding to end it. You take a life and then you make the "choice" to do so. Thats what murder is.
So how is it not considered murder? Abortion is taking a life. Just because a fetus is not born yet, does not mean its not a human. Thats how we all start.
We are all alive because our mothers gave birth to us and didnt end our lives in the womb.
I don't know how one can logically make the argument. It's killing a human life. No matter how you spin it, it's murder.
You are saying that your life is more important than another's life. You are also a "clump of cells".
No, an embryo is a clump of cells, a grown woman is someone who has a life, who has forged relationships, who works, who has hobbies and interests. A grown woman is someone that society has made a significant investment in. She has gone to school, she has been a member of clubs, she travels. An embryo has potential, but mother nature is the most prolific abortionist of all. Many pregnancies are aborted without any human assistance at all. And you are saying that the embryo's life is more important than another's life. Who are you to say that?
You post makes no sense. Just because you want to protect an infant from infanticide, doesn't mean you have adopted them for life. This "boilerplate" you cite (and it is soo worn out) is meaningless.
If you want to reduce the number of abortions, then you should be interested in addressing the reasons women choose abortion. If you value life so much, then you should be thinking about the lives of children and women.
You're taking a life and deciding to end it. You take a life and then you make the "choice" to do so. Thats what murder is.
So how is it not considered murder? Abortion is taking a life. Just because a fetus is not born yet, does not mean its not a human. Thats how we all start.
We are all alive because our mothers gave birth to us and didnt end our lives in the womb.
Why do babies only seem to matter to the pro lifers when they are in the womb. Do you think that suddenly they can defend themselves once they've exited???
If you want people to get on board with your pro life cause, you should be in complete favor of public funding for children's healthcare. You should be in favor of increased social safety nets for families. You should be in favor of public funding of prenatal care, and in favor of making the adoption process easier and less of a financial burden on prospective parents. Until then you are a hypocrite who simply wants to say abortion is bad because its convenient for you. If babies matter, they matter inside and outside the womb.
Its easy to say how bad abortion is. I agree with that. Its hypocritical to say it is bad and not care nearly as much about the other issues facing children (particularly poor children) in the country once they are born.
"The reasons women give for having an abortion underscore their understanding of the responsibilities of parenthood and family life. Three-fourths of women cite concern for or responsibility to other individuals; three-fourths say they cannot afford a child; three-fourths say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or the ability to care for dependents; and half say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner"
Maybe if women thought they could support a child, they would keep it.
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