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A majority of fetuses are terminated during the first
trimester - no fetus is viable to survive outside the
womb at this time, regardless of the resemblance
to a new born baby you may see. In fact, without
new tech medicine, many of the pre mature births
would not survive long after birth, as well. It is not murder,
but a medical procedure you clearly do not understand.
Best to spend your energies on the living e.g.
universal health care, stopping wars etc. And make
sure you donate to your local mission on a regular basis
- help feed a homeless person
Yes, women wonder. And many women wonder about what their lives would be like if they hadn't had any children at all. People do wonder about the paths they didn't choose. That doesn't mean that they regret the choices they made.
But I never used the term regret. You did. That said you can't write with an certainty that women do regret the choice years later. Do we have any stats on this?
Look, the state defines murder, and thus until the state says abortion is murder, it is not murder. I agree with this. I agree with the woman's choice.
I have two questions that never get answered logically:
Why, if a woman has a choice does the man not have the choice? Meaning, if a woman chooses abortion, the man has no say in the choice. However, when the woman chooses to deliver a baby, then why doesn't the man have the choice to not support it if he doesn't want the woman to have the baby? Seems like a double standard to me.
Why is it a baby from day one when a woman finds out she is pregnant but it is a fetus when a woman chooses not to deliver full term? I say the terminology changes because the woman who chooses to terminate human life wants the cover of the word fetus so as not to feel guilty about termiating human life forms. Surely the woman who carries full term isn't asked How is your fetus today? But the woman who elects to abort never calls her fetus a baby. Another double standard.
But I never used the term regret. You did. That said you can't write with an certainty that women do regret the choice years later. Do we have any stats on this?
Look, the state defines murder, and thus until the state says abortion is murder, it is not murder. I agree with this. I agree with the woman's choice.
I have two questions that never get answered logically:
Why, if a woman has a choice does the man not have the choice? Meaning, if a woman chooses abortion, the man has no say in the choice. However, when the woman chooses to deliver a baby, then why doesn't the man have the choice to not support it if he doesn't want the woman to have the baby? Seems like a double standard to me.
Why is it a baby from day one when a woman finds out she is pregnant but it is a fetus when a woman chooses not to deliver full term? I say the terminology changes because the woman who chooses to terminate human life wants the cover of the word fetus so as not to feel guilty about termiating human life forms. Surely the woman who carries full term isn't asked How is your fetus today? But the woman who elects to abort never calls her fetus a baby. Another double standard.
It's ultimately the woman's choice, because it's her life that will be impacted the most. Pregnancy isn't risk-free. Many women have health complications. Should the man be making the choice for her when it's her health at risk? Pregnancy isn't cheap. Many women have financial issues. Should the man be making the choice for her when it's the roof over her head, the food on her table at risk? Many women have personal issues. Should the man be making the choice for her when he's abused her, or when he doesn't work and lets her support him, or when he's molested the children she already has? I think women very often do consult with the men in their lives, when they have healthy, stable relationships with those men. When they don't, do you think the man should still be able to make the choice for her?
As for your question about semantics, a pregnancy that's planned for, or wanted, is a different thing from a pregnancy that is unwanted and can devastate a woman's life. People who are anticipating a newborn child with joy and expectation will refer to the fetus as a baby because that's what they are hoping for.
I have two questions that never get answered logically:
Why, if a woman has a choice does the man not have the choice? Meaning, if a woman chooses abortion, the man has no say in the choice. However, when the woman chooses to deliver a baby, then why doesn't the man have the choice to not support it if he doesn't want the woman to have the baby? Seems like a double standard to me.
Why is it a baby from day one when a woman finds out she is pregnant but it is a fetus when a woman chooses not to deliver full term? Surely the woman who carries full term isn't asked How is your fetus today? But the woman who elects to abort never calls her fetus a baby. Another double standard.
Your just rambling about semantics there.
A man does not have a choice about actually having
a baby, simply because it's not his body and he can
not carry a fetus in his body.
I totally agree, if a man does not want to be a father, simply because he got a woman pregnant but she wants to be a mother, she should take financial responsibility for that choice - and I don't mean the "easy" welfare line. Too many men are expected to be "dad" in paycheck only, and it simply is not equitable. It goes back to the day of the shot gun wedding
It's ultimately the woman's choice, because it's her life that will be impacted the most. Pregnancy isn't risk-free. Many women have health complications. Should the man be making the choice for her when it's her health at risk? Pregnancy isn't cheap. Many women have financial issues. Should the man be making the choice for her when it's the roof over her head, the food on her table at risk? Many women have personal issues. Should the man be making the choice for her when he's abused her, or when he doesn't work and lets her support him, or when he's molested the children she already has? I think women very often do consult with the men in their lives, when they have healthy, stable relationships with those men. When they don't, do you think the man should still be able to make the choice for her?
As for your question about semantics, a pregnancy that's planned for, or wanted, is a different thing from a pregnancy that is unwanted and can devastate a woman's life. People who are anticipating a newborn child with joy and expectation will refer to the fetus as a baby because that's what they are hoping for.
I am not writing the man should make the choice. What I am writing is for equal protection under the law. If the woman makes the choice ALONE, then the man should not have to be responsible for the choice she ALONE makes for both of them. Double standard.
As for what you call semantics, I call a double standard because we have a life form and one calls it a baby and the other calls that same life form a fetus. I postulate that the woman who plans abortion uses the word fetus to absolve herself from the guilt that goes hand in hand with the termination of a human life form
Look, it is what it is here, and trying to defend the double standard of the terms is fruitless because there is one life form with two definitions of the term. Itis a double standard.
A man does not have a choice about actually having
a baby, simply because it's not his body and he can
not carry a fetus in his body.
I totally agree, if a man does not want to be a father, simply because he got a woman pregnant but she wants to be a mother, she should take financial responsibility for that choice - and I don't mean the "easy" welfare line. Too many men are expected to be "dad" in paycheck only, and it simply is not equitable. It goes back to the day of the shot gun wedding
Rambling? Excuse me if I want one definition for the life form which some people refuse to recognize since they know it leads to a double standard.
It' very difficult to admit to this double standard, but it is no less a double standard. Unless you can prove it isn't but I have yet to see anyone do it. It just happens to one of those anomolies of abortion. But at least admit it.
If the man has no self interest in the choice, then he should have no self interest in supporting it. This is equal protection under the law.
You're taking a life and deciding to end it. You take a life and then you make the "choice" to do so. Thats what murder is.
So how is it not considered murder? Abortion is taking a life. Just because a fetus is not born yet, does not mean its not a human. Thats how we all start.
We are all alive because our mothers gave birth to us and didnt end our lives in the womb.
this is so simple that a 3rd grader could figure it out.
Murder is illegal.
Abortion is legal, therefor, abortion is not murder.
this is so simple that a 3rd grader could figure it out.
Murder is illegal.
Abortion is legal, therefor, abortion is not murder.
see? simple
You should really leave out the condescion out of your replies. I am not sure all 3rd graders understand the levels of murder as the state defines it. This type of attiude only demeans your own post.
The state defines murder and this doesn't include abortion. Some people don't accept the state defining their morals and one has to respect this attitude. But in the end, the state tells one what they can do with their own body, excepting in abortion.
If I want to remove one of my kidneys and sell it to the highest bidder, I would be put in jail. How is that owning my own body? Yet the state allows women to terminate human life forms in their own bodies and they are not prosecuted because the state rests its logic on its the woman's own body and they have no right to interfere with her decision.
You should really leave out the condescion out of your replies. I am not sure all 3rd graders understand the levels of murder as the state defines it. This type of attiude only demeans your own post.
The state defines murder and this doesn't include abortion. Some people don't accept the state defining their morals and one has to respect this attitude. But in the end, the state tells one what they can do with their own body, excepting in abortion.
If I want to remove one of my kidneys and sell it to the highest bidder, I would be put in jail. How is that owning my own body? Yet the state allows women to terminate human life forms in their own bodies and they are not prosecuted because the state rests its logic on its the woman's own body and they have no right to interfere with her decision.
Another double standard.
First of all, removing your kidney to sell is is NOT legal like abortion.
Im sure there is a law regarding selling your body parts.
again, murder is illegal and abortion IS LEGAL. What do you not understand?
You quoted this :"First, you call it murder , then you say it's OK???? The fetus ISN'T a person in the case of rape or incest???""
And then proceeded to ignore it.
WHY do you think abortion is OK in the case of rape or incest?
I didn't proceed to ignore it. I stated that it is murder, but I continued by saying it may be an acceptable form of what amounts to murder. The same can be said for assisted suicide and capitol punishment.
Murder basically means to premeditatively destroy another human life. All three of the above cases could technically be considered murder.
I just find it silly that the pro-choice crowd wants to pretend that somehow murder isn't murder. They want to pretend that the definition of a human-being varies depending on how the woman feels that day.
It is murder, you are intentionally killing another human life. You can sit around blaming men, saying that abortions should be available until men can carry the baby, or that women constantly have miscarriages all the time, many times they aren't even aware of being pregnant in the first place. Or that science is using embryos to further humanity. Those are all valid arguments. But it is stupid that you deny that you are killing another human life. And all the excuses in the world don't change that fact.
When I look at the world, I don't care about ethics, I don't care about social norms, I don't care about your feelings.
When I look at the world I think, if I change one thing, what else will change? And will the results of an action lead to positive or negative results.
There isn't any real right or wrong, every culture and society is different and it is silly to brand one as being right or wrong. There is basically "better or worse'. Usually in regards to the well-being of other human beings. If a policy tends to raise the subjective well-being of humanity, then it is "right" or "good" and if it tends to lower the subjective well-being of humanity, then it is "wrong" or "bad".
Abortions are something that can be used for good. Such as limiting population growth, increasing the general happiness or health of a population, or attempting to reverse the dysgenic nature of most modern societies. It can save lives, it can lower emotional duress(such as after a rape). And it helps limit the likelihood that children will be put into situations where they will be at severe economic or social disadvantage, or simply be unloved.
The question about abortion to me is whether its advantages outweigh its disadvantages. There are some serious moral, ethical, and social issues that arise from the existence and availability of abortions. Such as the general attitude of humanity towards sex and marriage. I could draw a pretty clear line between abortion and the drop in traditional values. You could also draw a line between birth control and the changing attitudes towards sex, which has done nothing but make people less responsible and less likely to marry. And this culture of sexual irresponsbility has had an effect on the people who actually do want to have children, the people who do want to get married. It becomes harder and harder to actually be responsible and good, because most people have become basically corrupted by this attitude that you can do whatever you want, anytime you want, and you should have no consequences, and no one has the right to call you out on it.
But don't pretend for a moment that abortion isn't the intentional killing of another human-being.
Last edited by Redshadowz; 02-10-2011 at 12:24 PM..
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