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If you don't know what health insurance is costing other people, how would you know whether we need a healthcare reform?
What do you base your opinions about the fairness of insurance companies on?
How would you compare the cost of private insurance vs. government plan?
Are you basing your opinion solely on what works for just you?
Actually Jojajn, I'm basing my "opinion" on being invited by a bi-partisan group of member of Congress - House and Senate - to participate in a citizens advisory group - with the idea that we would make recommendations to Congress (which we did this past January '09).
This group, of well over a 100 people, from all walks of life, from every part of the country, from various professions - blue and white collar - rich and poor and middle income etc - VOLUNTEERED and met numerous times over more than a 2 year period. There were people from the "left", from the "right" and from the Center. There were Republicans, Democrats, Libertarians, those who do not subscribe to any political party.
We looked at premiums - by region (apples to apples). We looked at employers providing health insurance. We looked at the homeless populations. We looked at the under-insured. The uninsured. And so on.
We got reports on cost analysis - we got reports on what would happen if type of things.
And I want to stress - other than being provide meeting places and a few meals - we paid our own way.
As I noted - we submitted our recommendations to the MOC in Jan '09. Some of our recommendations are in a couple of the Democratic plans now before the Congress.
A significant number of our recommendations are in this GOP bill though -
I personally have had the opportunity (along with others) to sit in on some of the Senate Finance Committee meetings (chaired by Sen Backus) and was able to speak directly to members of the committee.
So yes - I feel I'm well informed on the subject - including premiums - if I do say so myself
BTW - I have not kept this a secret - you can get back on my postings and see a number of posts where I referenced these activities.
I do know that it eliminates pre -existing conditions. But then that sets up the insurance system to operate and have ONLY sick people using the system. Because the healthy will NOT buy insurance UNTIL they find out they are sick!!! They'll be more comfortable not purchasing insurance while they seemingly don't need it because they know that WHEN they need it they can sign up and not face pre-existing condition consequences. See.. while pre-existing condition clauses SUCK.. they are there for a purpose.
In turn.. if ONLY the sick are utilizing the system it skues the risk pool and RAISES the cost of insurance.. Heck ONE person in a company that gets an expensive illness alone can skew the cost of insurance for the rest of the group.
You can still opt NOT to have insurance and as a result you pay a 2% fine under the Obama plan. Not so bad if you ask me, considering that 2% is far less than what insurance actually costs. AND considering that IF and WHEN the person becomes ill while uninsured then at least they would have paid into SOMETHING for what they will eventually get.
The reason the GOP isn't mandating coverage is because under the current PRIVATE system they can't. Because PRIVATE companies can't really offer affordable care.. again because of the excessive overhead they have in order to run themselves..
With Obama's plan you can take the less expensive government option, should you decide you don't want insurance at all.
Excellent post! and so true! Thanks TristansMommy for explaining it so well that perhaps just maybe some posters will get it!
Are you totally sure of your statement above TM? Because, it is real easy to show how mistaken you are.
Say I got a 30 something. No employer healthcare. He can get (and I have previously PROVED THIS TO YOU), a "bare bones" policy for $150 (or less) per month.
Now, say that same 30 something does not want health insurance - and he is making say - 100K a year (lots are actually doing this TM) - suddenly, he is now getting fined 2% of his gross income - which is now more than the insurance premium.
Now - say the Feds assess a fine TM - how are they going to enforce the fine? No one knows - there is room in the Obamacare bill where the fine might result in a criminal charge - something I'm sure you are aware of.
Let people make up their own minds if they want insurance or not. Most will decide they want insurance TM - have faith in the American people (something you do not now have).
Who ends up paying for these people without insurance when they end up in the emergency room gravely ill?
I read some complaining on this thread about supposed people who could afford insurance but not buy it. The 2% fine would fix that problem.
Who ends up paying for these people without insurance when they end up in the emergency room gravely ill?
I read some complaining on this thread about supposed people who could afford insurance but not buy it. The 2% fine would fix that problem.
Many can actually afford to pay for their own medical care even though they do not have insurance. I know that may surprise you but, it is true.
For those who cannot, then it would be up to the individual or in some cases, welfare. Mind you - obamacare is NOT going to eliminate welfare.
The policies envisioned by obamacare are essentially bare bones type of coverages - although there is the promotion of well care - something I can fully agree with. And, there is the Catastrophic coverage - which again is great. In fact - that is what Insurance USE TO BE for. Not the day to day.
The 2% fine? The legislation does not specify where it goes to - that is one of the problems. The bill says "The Secretary will determine ....."
And this is one of the big complaints with the Obamacare proposal. It lacks a lot of specifics.
Many can actually afford to pay for their own medical care even though they do not have insurance. I know that may surprise you but, it is true.
For those who cannot, then it would be up to the individual or in some cases, welfare. Mind you - obamacare is NOT going to eliminate welfare.
The policies envisioned by obamacare are essentially bare bones type of coverages - although there is the promotion of well care - something I can fully agree with. And, there is the Catastrophic coverage - which again is great. In fact - that is what Insurance USE TO BE for. Not the day to day.
The 2% fine? The legislation does not specify where it goes to - that is one of the problems. The bill says "The Secretary will determine ....."
And this is one of the big complaints with the Obamacare proposal. It lacks a lot of specifics.
Your half right, only the RICH and the government can afford their Medical care..Many without insurance as well as those with insurance CAN NOT afford to pay for their medical care. The insurance companies do not pay 100% and in some instances refuse to pay anything at all. If the insurance company feel a procedure like knee surgery or hip replacement is unecessary, they will deny the claim.
Too many American's are either going into Bankrupt, maxing out their credit cards or over extending themselves with loans or dipping into their pensions to pay for medical care, others who are hitting retirement age are holding off until they've reached the age of 62 when their eligible for medicare to seek the care they need.
Considering your on a panel you should know this enough not to make the above statement.
Many can actually afford to pay for their own medical care even though they do not have insurance. I know that may surprise you but, it is true.
For those who cannot, then it would be up to the individual or in some cases, welfare. Mind you - obamacare is NOT going to eliminate welfare.
The policies envisioned by obamacare are essentially bare bones type of coverages - although there is the promotion of well care - something I can fully agree with. And, there is the Catastrophic coverage - which again is great. In fact - that is what Insurance USE TO BE for. Not the day to day.
The 2% fine? The legislation does not specify where it goes to - that is one of the problems. The bill says "The Secretary will determine ....."
And this is one of the big complaints with the Obamacare proposal. It lacks a lot of specifics.
You ahve absolutely NO PROOF whatsoever to back up YOUR claim that people are uninsured by choice because they CAN afford it when clearly the numbers are saying that the lack of insurance is closely tied with a) high rising costs having outpaced salaries AND income levels.. in otherwords, the less you make, the less you can afford the insurance.
So.. until you have SOLID PROOF with numbers to back up that nonsense.. then it is only your OPINION.. based NOT on actual data and fact.. BUT on your assumptions based on ..well nothing.
You ahve absolutely NO PROOF whatsoever to back up YOUR claim that people are uninsured by choice because they CAN afford it when clearly the numbers are saying that the lack of insurance is closely tied with a) high rising costs having outpaced salaries AND income levels.. in otherwords, the less you make, the less you can afford the insurance.
So.. until you have SOLID PROOF with numbers to back up that nonsense.. then it is only your OPINION.. based NOT on actual data and fact.. BUT on your assumptions based on ..well nothing.
TM - the proof you are referring to HAS BEEN PROVIDED to you (and everyone else) numerous times before. Simply put, you are choosing evidently to acknowledge it -
Your half right, only the RICH and the government can afford their Medical care..
Please, keep in mind that in the United States today, over 80% of Americans have health insurance.
And yes - some require co-pays. Some have deductibles. There is NO REASON why you should expect the Government to pay for 100% of every little medical bill you incur.
Insurance use to be ONLY for MAJOR Medical - hospitalizations / surgeries.
I would not mind going back to that and having Americans actually pay for some of their own medical costs. What would be wrong with that?
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