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Obama's plan does not allow insurance to be sold across state lines TM - I thought you knew that?
BTW - how do you feel about, under the Obamacare plan - that t5here is a MANDATE to have insurance - and if you don't, you will be fined 2% (or more) of your income? How do you feel about this - being forced to buy something?
First off.. what the hell is the "exchange" then? Where there are choices of insurance to purchase with NO denial for pre-existing plans.. AND a Government option within that exchange. Already lifting the ban on pre-existing conditions opens many choices for me.. AND I'll have the choice of purchasing the government plan.. which will be much more economical than the private, I'm sure (again.. overhead of private is 30% vs. 5% of medicaid).
I'm all for a mandate. You can't lift pre-existing clauses without mandating insurance. That's like allowing someone to purchase life insurance for someone AFTER they die and then saying that the insurance company has to pay out the premiums. It's doomed to failure.
BTW.. since insurance takes up well more than 2% of income (again.. average family of 4 costs about 22% of the average families income) then paying 2% is not so bad. They have the option of buying an insurance plan.. or paying into the "pot" so to speak with a 2% fine.. As you are well aware from my other posts in the past.. I liked that about the Swiss system (mandating policy). BTW.. they have over 98% of their population (citizens and non) complying with the policy and the rest paying the "fine".
And, there are News Articles out there - I have already provided some earlier.
The Dems have known about these two bills - new about the GOP news conferences announcing them (I provided links) - the DEMS are dening there is such a bill - the Dems are lying.
Oh, it's the liberal media up to their old tricks
The poor GOP couldnt put out press releases and spread the word? Even Faux couldnt get the message out, from JUNE until AUGUST?
and - link to "the Dems" denying there is such a bill? Are you talking about Charles Rangel?
First off.. what the hell is the "exchange" then? Where there are choices of insurance to purchase with NO denial for pre-existing plans.. AND a Government option within that exchange. Already lifting the ban on pre-existing conditions opens many choices for me.. AND I'll have the choice of purchasing the government plan.. which will be much more economical than the private, I'm sure (again.. overhead of private is 30% vs. 5% of medicaid).
The GOP plan also eliminates pre-existing conditions TM. I thought you knew that.
Funny how my many posts telling you how much our out-of-pocket health care costs have been while ON government 'cheap/'free' medical coverage keep getting ignored.
Two years in a row, we've matched greatdays outlay.
Don't know why you think you'll pay less or get more than you might with some basic reform.
I also don't know which companies some people have. We have never had any 'cadillac' plans but they have all been great......paid out a ton,year after year, never refused anything nor kicked us out.
Where do you get the 2% cost TM?
Edited to add....Oh, that 2% fine
Last edited by old_cold; 08-03-2009 at 05:58 PM..
Reason: closer read
BTW.. since insurance takes up well more than 2% of income (again.. average family of 4 costs about 22% of the average families income) then paying 2% is not so bad. They have the option of buying an insurance plan.. or paying into the "pot" so to speak with a 2% fine.. As you are well aware from my other posts in the past.. I liked that about the Swiss system (mandating policy). BTW.. they have over 98% of their population (citizens and non) complying with the policy and the rest paying the "fine".
TM, rather than continue with your worn out rhetoric, may I suggest you become familiar with the legislation at issue here - the GOP plan so that you can speak intelligently about THIS PLAN and not the Obamacare plan?
Really, there are enough other threads with your rhetoric - it would be nice to discuss the pros and cons of this legislation.
The GOP plan also eliminates pre-existing conditions TM. I thought you knew that.
I do know that it eliminates pre -existing conditions. But then that sets up the insurance system to operate and have ONLY sick people using the system. Because the healthy will NOT buy insurance UNTIL they find out they are sick!!! They'll be more comfortable not purchasing insurance while they seemingly don't need it because they know that WHEN they need it they can sign up and not face pre-existing condition consequences. See.. while pre-existing condition clauses SUCK.. they are there for a purpose.
In turn.. if ONLY the sick are utilizing the system it skues the risk pool and RAISES the cost of insurance.. Heck ONE person in a company that gets an expensive illness alone can skew the cost of insurance for the rest of the group.
You can still opt NOT to have insurance and as a result you pay a 2% fine under the Obama plan. Not so bad if you ask me, considering that 2% is far less than what insurance actually costs. AND considering that IF and WHEN the person becomes ill while uninsured then at least they would have paid into SOMETHING for what they will eventually get.
The reason the GOP isn't mandating coverage is because under the current PRIVATE system they can't. Because PRIVATE companies can't really offer affordable care.. again because of the excessive overhead they have in order to run themselves..
With Obama's plan you can take the less expensive government option, should you decide you don't want insurance at all.
TM, rather than continue with your worn out rhetoric, may I suggest you become familiar with the legislation at issue here - the GOP plan so that you can speak intelligently about THIS PLAN and not the Obamacare plan?
Really, there are enough other threads with your rhetoric - it would be nice to discuss the pros and cons of this legislation.
Thanks
MY rhetoric.
Pot MEET KETTLE
PLEASE.. and there is enough of YOUR rhetoric all over these boards.
I talk about the Obama plan because I read it, understand it etc.
Unlike the rest of you who just listen to "opinions" by people with agendas rather than reading it for yourself and forming your own opinion.
I'm tired of hearing about the lies spread and the mistruths about the current Obama plan.. it's absolutely RIDICULOUS.. ABSURD and downright disgusting!
The poor GOP couldnt put out press releases and spread the word? Even Faux couldnt get the message out, from JUNE until AUGUST?
There have been press releases - and I have provided links to some - If you want to see more, do a search for the legislation - you will find various reporting on it - CBS News, ABC News, Washington Times etc. I think even Fox News did report on it. And a number of the talk shows have had it
And, Rangel made a statement about the GOP having nothing yesterday on a CNN show
Then, there is this (w/no mention of the GOP plan - NONE)
Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, expressed exasperation over the Senate's slow action. "Sure, we wish we had more time. But the president has given us a deadline. We're working under it. Our committee has reported out a bill. We're waiting for the Senate to do -- what? Do anything," Rangel told CBS' "Face the Nation." "We have a deadline. We will meet it. The question is, what do we expect the other house to do? God only has the answer to that.\
The Democrats will not even MENTION the Republican bill.
Support for the Obama Bill is dropping - less than 50% of Americans now support the Democratic plan in the Congress.
After this month long recess - as word of the other plan is brought out to the American people - it is my opinion that the AMERICAN people will want to hear BOTH SIDES - BOTH PLANS and not merely one plan that the Democrats are CLEARLY trying to push down out throats.
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