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To hear your child say these things to you hurts so much - and mostly because you blame yourself for it. Don't - you married their father with love in your heart and you left him with love in your heart - for your children.
Alexander is confused - that is why he said the things to you that he did - the "town" house comment was his way to tell you that he needs some direction.
Don't stress that - the judge told us (directed at my stepson's mom) that the child belongs with both of them and anywhere the parents are is home. Make it okay for your children to love their father and DON"T SWEAT THE SMALL STUFF.....
You do need to explain to the kids why you left - but don't get specific. Just tell them that it is your job to do what you think is right and that it is your decision. They trust you and they do not fear you - but guilt is a powerful thing and it sounds like TJ is pulling out all of the stops. Please know that this is normal - even it it's very crappy!
Also - tell the kids that it's hard for everyone and include TJ in that - but that you feel that it's what's best for them in the long run. I know you will want to gag on some of this - but it all comes down to what is best for your babies.....they need to feel loved by both parents and they should not be in the middle picking sides. I know you don't want that. Alexander is going to be confused - he wants to love his father and so he will concentrate only on the good things.
Have him read a book about divorce - maybe ask your pastor -there are some really good Christian books out there for kids.
You are doing the right thing - the hardest part of parenting - do your best - kiss them and then watch them walk away and pray. Your son is growing up and you can't be next to him every step of the way. Thankfully you have loved him so much that he carries that in his heart.
TJ is doing this because he can't understand that you would not do it to him. He cannot grasp that you would not hurt him or take the kids away - he can't understand it because he can't see past what he is.
As far as the "talking bad" about the other parent - that will be part of the order - but hard to enforce. I suggest that you do bring it up at the mediation. TJ needs to accept the reality that the marriage is over and that his relationship with his children is his responsibility. If things were 100% with them you could say anything that you wanted about him and the kids would not believe you. Just like it is when he puts you down - your children know. They love their father - but they rely on you. Does it really matter if they say they have 2 homes? Let them - the more people that love them the better.
I know and you know it's a game and they will before long too - but don't you be the one to burst the bubble - just be there to love them like you always have.
They'll be fine and so will you!!!
Robyn, windchimes is so right as usual. It may get better down the road but TJ may always make him fill guilty that just might be his way.
My 19 yr. sons father still does that, and its taken alot of years but he understands that is the way it is. It is a sad dance that poor A will be doing alot of.
Have a good day all.
Robyn, I'm not surprised at Alexander's reaction to his life at this point. He is a sensitive child, and it sounds as though he hates the change for many reasons. I DO NOT TRUST TJ. I am certain he has verbally confused the children all weekend, possibly making Alexander feel guilty for leaving, or reinforcing for them that he has been the caretaker all these years. TJ just wants to be able to say you don't know what you're talking about, he IS good to his children...I can imagine both the children are confused by this twist of behavior. Let Alexander know that it's a confusing, uncomfortable time for all of you, but that he does not deserve to be yelled at all the time, and he should not allow anyone (TJ) to do that to him...the fact that Alexander feels it's OK to be yelled at is a sign of a child who has been verbally abused enough, that he's comfortable in that atmosphere...document this valuable conversation you had with your son.
I'm glad you asked Alexander about his being distracted during the phone call with you.
You might suggest that he go in another room, or call back when the talking stops ~ and you might bring up in mediation, that the kids be provided with a private place to speak with you when you call.
The guy is an emotional cretin ~ I'm with Windy (above-though can't rep her) ~ go prepared with typed sheets, stating clearly what you want changed...these kids shouldn't be with him at all, but if they must, not as often as they are.
I can't say it enough, "JIM IS AN IRRESPONSIBLE and CRUEL HUMAN BEING ~ AN EMOTIONAL, VERBAL and INTIMIDATING ABUSER." I WISH YOU FELT STRONG ENOUGH TO FIGHT FOR HIM TO ONLY HAVE MONITORED VISITS AT A PROFESSIONAL OFFICE WITH HIS CHILDREN. HIS INFLUENCE IS VERY DAMAGING TO YOU, MUCH LESS A YOUNGSTER. You need to speak to your lawyer ahead of time and let him know Alexander's reaction to the visits, and ask the lawyer what he feels he is missing for Th's meeting.
Rest easy, my dear, you are a wonderful mother, and part of doing damage control with the children at this time, is to help them learn a healthier way to expect to be treated...tough to do and not bad-mouth their father in the process. You and the kids are right where you would be, after years of enduring oppression & abuse...give it time and keep providing a stable, nurturing and loving environment for yourselves.
Can't add anything to this either Robyn. MsV, I agree 1000 percent on everything you said. Jim is an abusive monster and cares NOTHING about his children. He's devoid of any humanity it seems, and will use anything and everything to get back at you - including abusing his own so to do so.
Robyn, you are a wonderful mother, and every response I see from you in how you handle this with Alexander is so very right in every way.
Walgreens in Hampton (& Portsmith too) has a promotion going on for a few more days ~ As an introduction to their new printer-ink business, they are allowing you to bring your little empty black ink cartridge to them and they will refill it for FREE, while you wait ~ a $20-$30 savings ~ The lady at the Godwin Blvd Walgreens said they couldn't offer that feature yet, but you could go to one of the other two stores in your area. Hurry...
Will post later, must work now...I hear the pitter patter of little hoves stampeeding down the hallway now... YIKES!!
Mornin', Robyn! Well, it's the start of a new week. One more baby step in the right direction.
I'm unclear about something you said. Did you ask the kids what they did and/or how the weekend went with TJ? If you did, I'm gonna make a suggestion that you don't ask for info about their time away. I know that seems unfair. You *are* their mother. I know I'd have a tough time not asking my kids....heck I did it even if I just left them with their dad so I could go to get groceries. Usually I took them with me. I didn't trust he'd take good care of them. Anyway, when a child is asked what happened they don't want to snitch on the not good stuff, and they don't want to share any of the good times because they think they are going to make the other parent angry or hurt their feelings. Asking, "How are you?" works. They can choose to talk about what *they* want to talk about.
Keep in mind that Alexander may have been watching for a reaction from you. He is trying to figure out his place and position in the family structure right now. It sounds as if TJ has a lot of the gender based role level stuff going on. The male needs to be in charge BS. Alexander may feel some conflict with needing to be an adult simply because he's male. He's a kid!! He wants to see his mom be calm, in charge, and strong.
Kids know. Kids know when someone is a bully. When it's a parent or loved who tells them one thing and does another, it is a mind messing game. They will get it, but it may take time. If a person is in a family and they are treated well, that's what they go by....like you said about your childhood. Yet, in the back of their mind, they know that the person in charge can be mean. They see it happen to others....they stay in line. They think that if they just behave the way the caregiver wants, they won't have problems. Hummmm? Sorta like behavior you continued in your marriage? That's how conditional love works. It's selfish and controlling. We all want approval and love. We should be loved for who we are....not what we do to please others.
You have broken the cycle. You are starting over. Alexander needs some time to catch up and realize that unconditional love exists. Counseling may be the best route for him to get that message right now. He needs to hear it from someone other than his caregiver. You *can* give him the example so he feels what it is without TJ there to muddy the water. Talking about it intellectually would probably work best coming from someone who is not emotionally involved.
kalogirl - I keep thinking of you as "ka*glo*girl". You've got it goin' on!!!! I'm so glad you've posted here. Robyn is very lucky to have you IRL.
windy...spot on....as always.
MsV..ditto...again.
Oh, one more thing. Being an a-hole/SOB is not against the law. There are a lot of them out there. It doesn't mean they are mentally ill. It means they are a-hole/SOBs because they've been allowed to get away with it. Standing up to this as you have doesn't mean that you are mean, unkind, unfeeling, or unfair. It means you are taking care of your children. That is the bottom line. Getting what is fair for your children via the courts. Don't settle for less!!! When you can approach this all without anger or fear (yeah...cold day in H@ll...I know) you won't doubt yourself at all. It's just another job...like washing the dishes. Oh..alright. More like cleaning toilets, but you know what I mean.
To hear your child say these things to you hurts so much - and mostly because you blame yourself for it. Don't - you married their father with love in your heart and you left him with love in your heart - for your children.
Alexander is confused - that is why he said the things to you that he did - the "town" house comment was his way to tell you that he needs some direction.
Don't stress that - the judge told us (directed at my stepson's mom) that the child belongs with both of them and anywhere the parents are is home. Make it okay for your children to love their father and DON"T SWEAT THE SMALL STUFF.....
You do need to explain to the kids why you left - but don't get specific. Just tell them that it is your job to do what you think is right and that it is your decision. They trust you and they do not fear you - but guilt is a powerful thing and it sounds like TJ is pulling out all of the stops. Please know that this is normal - even it it's very crappy!
Also - tell the kids that it's hard for everyone and include TJ in that - but that you feel that it's what's best for them in the long run. I know you will want to gag on some of this - but it all comes down to what is best for your babies.....they need to feel loved by both parents and they should not be in the middle picking sides. I know you don't want that. Alexander is going to be confused - he wants to love his father and so he will concentrate only on the good things.
Have him read a book about divorce - maybe ask your pastor -there are some really good Christian books out there for kids.
You are doing the right thing - the hardest part of parenting - do your best - kiss them and then watch them walk away and pray. Your son is growing up and you can't be next to him every step of the way. Thankfully you have loved him so much that he carries that in his heart.
TJ is doing this because he can't understand that you would not do it to him. He cannot grasp that you would not hurt him or take the kids away - he can't understand it because he can't see past what he is.
As far as the "talking bad" about the other parent - that will be part of the order - but hard to enforce. I suggest that you do bring it up at the mediation. TJ needs to accept the reality that the marriage is over and that his relationship with his children is his responsibility. If things were 100% with them you could say anything that you wanted about him and the kids would not believe you. Just like it is when he puts you down - your children know. They love their father - but they rely on you. Does it really matter if they say they have 2 homes? Let them - the more people that love them the better.
I know and you know it's a game and they will before long too - but don't you be the one to burst the bubble - just be there to love them like you always have.
They'll be fine and so will you!!!
OK, Robyn. ILTB has done it again. Read and reread her post, and give us a call in the morning!!
THREAD DRIFT!! MsV, I suspect we work (worked in my case) in the same sort of job. I miss the sound of those halls in the morning. I miss the hugs. I don't miss the restraining that was sometimes necessary right before lunch. Have a good day!
Robyn - I was talking to my husband last night about your situation and he asked me to share his story with you.
As children my husband and his older sister lived with their father and mother. The father was a mean, nasty drunk. He beat my husband and his mother and to a lesser degree the daughter. He'd lock the mom outside and sit at the top of the stairs with a gun trained on the door and the kids would have to signal with lights in their bedroom window when he was passed out so she could come in. He beat my husband bloody and broke many bones. The mom would leave and come back - because he was a good provider and children need a father. This continued until my husband outgrew his father and finally sat on him one night and would not let him up. My husband would not hit his father - but he would not allow his father to hit his mother. He was 16. He became the protector. 19 years later his father is now sober (still an SOB) and his parents are still married. My father in law has come a long way and things are better for the grandchildren.
My husband loves his father and mother - both of them. He doesn't respect either of his parents. He can forgive his father because he had a "problem" and he says that his father is a different man and it's his choice to care for the man he is now. BUT - although he loves his mother - he is having a tough time with her now. He looks at our children and he can't imagine how she could let her children live with the monster that his father was. He blames his mother more than his father and is just now dealing with his anger.
Every situation is different - everyone has their own story - I just wanted to give you a real life example of what could be.......
There is not a book out there that you can follow word for word - just do your best and pray. Live your life so that you wouldn't be ashamed to tell your grandparents what you did that day!
Last edited by I love the Bears; 09-17-2007 at 09:36 AM..
Mornin', Robyn! Well, it's the start of a new week. One more baby step in the right direction.
I'm unclear about something you said. Did you ask the kids what they did and/or how the weekend went with TJ? If you did, I'm gonna make a suggestion that you don't ask for info about their time away. I know that seems unfair. You *are* their mother. I know I'd have a tough time not asking my kids....heck I did it even if I just left them with their dad so I could go to get groceries. Usually I took them with me. I didn't trust he'd take good care of them. Anyway, when a child is asked what happened they don't want to snitch on the not good stuff, and they don't want to share any of the good times because they think they are going to make the other parent angry or hurt their feelings. Asking, "How are you?" works. They can choose to talk about what *they* want to talk about.
Keep in mind that Alexander may have been watching for a reaction from you. He is trying to figure out his place and position in the family structure right now. It sounds as if TJ has a lot of the gender based role level stuff going on. The male needs to be in charge BS. Alexander may feel some conflict with needing to be an adult simply because he's male. He's a kid!! He wants to see his mom be calm, in charge, and strong.
Kids know. Kids know when someone is a bully. When it's a parent or loved who tells them one thing and does another, it is a mind messing game. They will get it, but it may take time. If a person is in a family and they are treated well, that's what they go by....like you said about your childhood. Yet, in the back of their mind, they know that the person in charge can be mean. They see it happen to others....they stay in line. They think that if they just behave the way the caregiver wants, they won't have problems. Hummmm? Sorta like behavior you continued in your marriage? That's how conditional love works. It's selfish and controlling. We all want approval and love. We should be loved for who we are....not what we do to please others.
You have broken the cycle. You are starting over. Alexander needs some time to catch up and realize that unconditional love exists. Counseling may be the best route for him to get that message right now. He needs to hear it from someone other than his caregiver. You *can* give him the example so he feels what it is without TJ there to muddy the water. Talking about it intellectually would probably work best coming from someone who is not emotionally involved.
kalogirl - I keep thinking of you as "ka*glo*girl". You've got it goin' on!!!! I'm so glad you've posted here. Robyn is very lucky to have you IRL.
windy...spot on....as always.
MsV..ditto...again.
Oh, one more thing. Being an a-hole/SOB is not against the law. There are a lot of them out there. It doesn't mean they are mentally ill. It means they are a-hole/SOBs because they've been allowed to get away with it. Standing up to this as you have doesn't mean that you are mean, unkind, unfeeling, or unfair. It means you are taking care of your children. That is the bottom line. Getting what is fair for your children via the courts. Don't settle for less!!! When you can approach this all without anger or fear (yeah...cold day in H@ll...I know) you won't doubt yourself at all. It's just another job...like washing the dishes. Oh..alright. More like cleaning toilets, but you know what I mean.
Really, I was inquiring into their phone call w/ me. When I called them Sat night,they really were not able to talk to me, because he was talking to them...asked them the details of that. What was going on that they were unable to speak w me...
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