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Besides that, I wasn't talking about women having "interest" in me anyway. I'm referring to casual interactions here, regarding the shared-interest group activity, and maybe even some small talk. My observation is that it's men and married women who interact with me. Your response here seems to imply that the single women would only talk to me if they have interest in me? Isn't that a common misconception among men, that if a women is friendly, she is interested?
A single female is “friendly” with some random guy from the stamp club or church choir or whatever. He asks her out. She’s not interested in dating him, so she politely turns him down. As long as he does not continue to harass her, she is able to move on without feeling abused. This is how it’s done. Ladies, in the above situation, have ANY of you been traumatized by turning a guy down for a date?
Fortunately for you, your previous thread was locked, so I can’t quote your posts to the contrary.
It bothered me then that you thought that I was trying to make up for the bad deeds of men, but I ultimately had to just let it go. I have since read and re-read that thread many times in the past five months, and I've seen nothing about making up for the bad deeds of men. Maybe I missed something. I'll go and read through it again.
A single female is “friendly” with some random guy from the stamp club or church choir or whatever. He asks her out. She’s not interested in dating him, so she politely turns him down. As long as he does not continue to harass her, she is able to move on without feeling abused. This is how it’s done. Ladies, in the above situation, have ANY of you been traumatized by turning a guy down for a date?
I think a more pertinent question to ask would be "Has anyone ever been made uncomfortable by having to turn down a guy when (you thought) it was obvious that you didn't have any interest in him?"
Because women (not all, but A LOT) have learned full well since pubescence that:
1) MANY men take any kindness, be it idle chit chat or a smile as an invitation or indication that something more than a platonic relationship might be possible so they (again, not all, but many women) err on the side of not going there so they don't get in those uncomfortable situations.
2) There is no such thing as a "non dating environment". Women (again, not all, but many) find that work, gym, school, church, in the dentist chair, shopping market, working in the garden, volunteering at an abuse shelter, running down the street, are all places that men will try to hit on them so they don't view it as "dating" vs "non dating" spaces... they can't relax about it like we can.
I'm really surprised you haven't heard oodles of stories from your female friends about guys they were just being friendly to that came on to them (hard) or being hit on in inappropriate places.
Ouch...
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Originally Posted by timberline742
Make peace with what? There is nothing to make peace with. Women let you know if there is some interest, and when there is, politely ask them out. On rare occasion I'll misread someone, but that's rather rare, and in that case they convey they're thanks but no thanks in a variety of ways and I move on. Simple. No peace to be made. On occasion if I'm not sure there is interest, I might take a bigger chance (generally in a situation where I've only had a little bit to interact and I'm unlikely to see them again randomly), but again, if it is the proper time and place, and done politely and cooly, its not going to to bother any, or many, people. Just don't be a creep that can't read body language at all, and know when the proper time and place is. But for Christ sake, don't roosterblock thyself. That makes no sense.
There it is again..."If she's interested, you'll know." Either...women have never been interested, or that statement is false. (I lean towards the former due to how many times I've asked out women and been turned down.) But it's contrary to what I've been told elsewhere on these boards...that women can be reserved around men they're interested in, expecting the guy to take a leading role in starting anything.
The last few bolds are what I fear...that the number of times I've been turned down (i.e., thought a woman was interested when she wasn't) means that I don't know the proper time and place (i.e., when she's interested) and that I can't read her body language (i.e., that I'm a creep asking out disinterested women).
It bothered me then that you thought that I was trying to make up for the bad deeds of men, but I ultimately had to just let it go. I have since read and re-read that thread many times in the past five months, and I've seen nothing about making up for the bad deeds of men. Maybe I missed something. I'll go and read through it again.
I hope I am not mis-remembering the context of this. So if what I am saying makes no sense, I apologize. I do not know the thread to which you refer. With regard to making up for the bad deeds of men, I think that is a noble wish. But I think being your best you is all that is really desirable.
My eldest used to rail against the evils of white men, and being one himself at the time, what he needed to be to make up for it. I really felt it is important for him, at the time, to understand that we are not responsible for the "sins of our fathers" so to speak except insofar as to learn what lessons can be taught.
I hope as you travel through life, you don't own those "sins" but merely allow them to teach you what parts of your own awesome you want to develop, and which parts of male privilege you want to use and how you want to use them for the better. But don't let them bring you down and guilt you for things that are not YOU.
There it is again..."If she's interested, you'll know." Either...women have never been interested, or that statement is false. (I lean towards the former due to how many times I've asked out women and been turned down.)
I have never agreed with the sentiment that if she is interested, you will know. It is easy to focus on that rather than learning the social sea and how to swim in it. Hey, if she is interested, she will whack me upside the head with the 2x4 that gets through to me! Yay!
I know for a fact that me being me neither sees approaches from men nor responds in ways that makes it obvious that I am interested when I am. And, for myself, I am ok with that. What will be, will be. Inner Zen. Blah blah.
2) There is no such thing as a "non dating environment". Women (again, not all, but many) find that work, gym, school, church, in the dentist chair, shopping market, working in the garden, volunteering at an abuse shelter, running down the street, are all places that men will try to hit on them so they don't view it as "dating" vs "non dating" spaces... they can't relax about it like we can.
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I'm really surprised you haven't heard oodles of stories from your female friends about guys they were just being friendly to that came on to them (hard) or being hit on in inappropriate places.
I can only think of those that you listed that dentist chair would likely be the only inappropriate place to hit on a woman, oh, and hanging outside the woman's bathroom. lol
But the others that you listed, be it the gym, grocery store, church (singles ministries) volunteering, etc. How would these be deemed "inappropriate?" I've known many to have met their sig others at these places. My dad met my mom on the beach. I have known quite a few married couples that met at the places you have listed as "inappropriate".
But who are you to say that these are "inappropriate" places? Who is anyone to say what venues are inappropriate. Funny, maybe it's a generational thing that meeting someone the traditional way, say a book store, is just something that isn't practiced anymore?
Funny, some of the dating advice to meet someone, given here, had been 'Go volunteer!"
Over the past few years, I've asked a bunch of people their thoughts and advice on dating, and it's becoming clear that none of it applies to me.
For instance, I was told that people mingle at bars, so I went to bars every weekend for 14 months and not one person talked to me. Dating apps, same thing. I get the impression that these things tend to work for people because they're attractive. If you go to a bar and someone talks to you, maybe it's simply because you're attractive.
So, if this is true, then why are people so reluctant to admit it? Are they afraid to hurt people's feelings? All this does is get a person's hopes up, which would make the truth even harder to swallow. Any thoughts?
I look like a muppet and random people strike up conversations with me all the time, usually just chatty, but occasionally flirtatiously. I don't think whether new people interact with you is necessarily a matter of good-looking versus not good-looking, more often a matter of looking approachable versus unapproachable. Some people's body language just says "nope, go away."
Funny, some of the dating advice to meet someone, given here, had been 'Go volunteer!"
That advice is usually given to people who claim they aren't meeting ANYONE, in an effort to get them around people of the opposite sex in a non-dating environment so they can get used to making conversation with and getting to know people WITHOUT the pressure of dating/approaching. It's for the ones who say they "can't approach" women in bars and similar venues.
"Go volunteer" is advised as a way to practice interacting in an environment that isn't traditionally known as a pick-up spot. It's also a way for others to get to know their personalities if they aren't among the supposedly favored percentage of good-looking guys that gets mentioned here. Plus it's a good way to get your mind off your dating woes and focus on others for a change.
It's a means to an end, not the end itself.
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