What Mormonism really teaches... (abortion, organizations, married, spirit)

[jencam]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

I think far more people on this forum would agree that I've been more respectful to you than you've been to me. You try being on the receiving end of a thread where fourteen different people are coming at you with criticisms of your belief system and where you're the only one defending it. I'd love to see how well you could handle that kind of pressure.

I don't know what makes you feel all that pressure. It's a discussion on what Mormonism teaches. No one is making you answer to anything, much less everything. You have taken it upon yourself to answer questions I ask of other people. How is talking to someone else putting pressure on you?

I think you are putting pressure on yourself to answer everything and keep a tight rein on the narrative. There is only gonna be one POV presented here if you can control it. Which you are working very hard at doing.

I have not once criticized YOUR personal belief system. I disagree on many things with the Church. You are not the Church, are you?

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by jencam

I don't know what makes you feel all that pressure. It's a discussion on what Mormonism teaches. No one is making you answer to anything, much less everything. You have taken it upon yourself to answer questions I ask of other people. How is talking to someone else putting pressure on you?

Yeah, how is being on a team of one, playing against a team of fourteen a walk in the park? Don't be so obtuse. It's very unbecoming.

I think you are putting pressure on yourself to answer everything and keep a tight rein on the narrative. There is only gonna be one POV presented here if you can control it. Which you are working very hard at doing.

Seriously? I would love it if some other knowledgeable Mormons were to stop by and help me out. Unfortunately, most of them who are on City-Data don't post on the religion forum.

I have not once criticized YOUR personal belief system. I disagree on many things with the Church. You are not the Church, are you?

My personal belief system is Mormonism. You have very strongly implied that it's not a Christian religion and that it's a cult. That's criticizing my belief system.

I've got to go. I have somewhere to be in a half hour.

[wallflash]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

I think far more people on this forum would agree that I've been more respectful to you than you've been to me. You try being on the receiving end of a thread where fourteen different people are coming at you with criticisms of your belief system and where you're the only one defending it. I'd love to see how well you could handle that kind of pressure.

To be honest, you have handled the thread very admirably. Kudos to you.

That doesn't mean I don't think some Mormon beliefs silly and wonder how they can be accepted , but you handle yourself with class and are a credit to your faith .

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by wallflash

To be honest, you have handled the thread very admirably. Kudos to you.

That doesn't mean I don't think some Mormon beliefs silly and wonder how they can be accepted , but you handle yourself with class and are a credit to your faith .

Thank you. I know how you feel about my beliefs, but that makes your compliment all the more appreciated.

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by wallflash

Get your act together , my friend, and quit spouting nonsense . I expressed an admiration for Mormons, in case your reading skills fail you. But someone else made the comment that he was a con man, which was then questioned, so I provided the information relevant to the question. Your opinion of the severity of it is irrelevant to the fact he was charged with scamming people .

And someone claiming psychic abilities doesn't make them a scam artist. Taking money when you know your abilities are bogus and you are fooling your customers does. None of which is relevant to my response,which was to simply give the case in which Smith was charged with conning people .

Start taking the time to think your posts through, please. It would save both of us some time wasted on nonsense .

And do you have proof that he was convicted. I think not. And I'm sorry, but I believe in innocent until proven guilty.

So you have evidence that Joseph knew his talent for finding things was bogus? Please share that evidence.

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

How is it a form of shunning? You keep certain commandments and you receive certain blessings. You don't keep certain commandments and you don't receive those blessings. There was a period of several years when I didn't pay a dime in tithing. I was never once shunned for this. It was never even mentioned to me! I was treated exactly the same way as I am now, when I am paying a full tithing.

Mmmmmmm...so you have to pay for blessings from god?

Did you really mean to say that?

[wallflash]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

And do you have proof that he was convicted. I think not. And I'm sorry, but I believe in innocent until proven guilty.

So you have evidence that Joseph knew his talent for finding things was bogus? Please share that evidence.

I never said he was convicted . Please take the time to read what I say if you are going to respond . I pointed out that I gave the instance of him being charged with scamming some people when the question about him being a con man was made .


And if you wish to believe that Smith really was having visions about lost treasures by putting a couple of "seeing stones" in a hat and holding the hat over his face , well have at it .

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

Mmmmmmm...so you have to pay for blessings from god?

Did you really mean to say that?

No, I didn't say that, but you interpreted what I did say as meaning that I have to pay for blessings from God. What I said was, "You keep certain commandments and you receive certain blessings. You don't keep certain commandments and you don't receive those blessings."

Here are the questions that are asked when a person goes in for a temple recommend interview:

1. Do you believe in God, the Eternal Father, in his Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost; and do you have a firm testimony of the restored gospel?

2. Do you sustain the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the prophet, seer, and revelator; and do you recognize him as the only person on the earth authorized to exercise all priesthood keys?

3. Do you sustain the other General Authorities and the local authorities of the Church?

4. Do you live the law of chastity?

5. Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

6. Do you affiliate with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or do you sympathize with the precepts of any such group or individual?

7. Do you earnestly strive to do your duty in the Church and to obey the rules, laws, and commandments of the gospel?

8. Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

9. Are you a full-tithe payer?

10. Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?

11. Do you keep all the covenants that you made in the temple, including wearing the authorized garments both day and night?

12. Has there been any sin or misdeed in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but has not?

13. Do you consider yourself worthy in every way to enter the temple and participate in temple ordinances?

One of these question concerns the payment of tithes. We believe that the commandment given in the Old Testament has never been rescinded. To most practicing Mormons, it's simply part of what it means to live your religion. All of the questions are equally important, and not complying with any one of them would be reason to not get a temple recommend. For me, keeping the Word of Wisdom (our health code) is a lot harder than paying tithing. I love wine, and I would dearly love to have a glass of wine with my dinner now and then (as in most every night) . But I can't do that and claim to be fully committed to what is expected of a member of the Church who is deemed worthy to attend the temple. So yeah, while I have been tremendously blessed without ever having done anything to deserve many of the blessings I've received, I do have to pay my tithing to get a temple recommend. I have to pay in every way that involves any kind of sacrifice on my part, but to me, it's worth it. You see, we make certain promises and commitments in the temple. If a person can't meet the requirements necessary to go to the temple in the first place, it's not very likely that they'll live up to what they promise when they actually go to the temple.

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by wallflash

I never said he was convicted . Please take the time to read what I say if you are going to respond . I pointed out that I gave the instance of him being charged with scamming some people when the question about him being a con man was made .


And if you wish to believe that Smith really was having visions about lost treasures by putting a couple of "seeing stones" in a hat and holding the hat over his face , well have at it .

Stop. Think of fairness.

You have no evidence that he did anything illegal.

I have met people with psychic abilities.

[jencam]

Originally Posted by Katzpur

No, I didn't say that, but you interpreted what I did say as meaning that I have to pay for blessings from God. What I said was, "You keep certain commandments and you receive certain blessings. You don't keep certain commandments and you don't receive those blessings."

Here are the questions that are asked when a person goes in for a temple recommend interview:

1. Do you believe in God, the Eternal Father, in his Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost; and do you have a firm testimony of the restored gospel?

2. Do you sustain the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the prophet, seer, and revelator; and do you recognize him as the only person on the earth authorized to exercise all priesthood keys?

3. Do you sustain the other General Authorities and the local authorities of the Church?

4. Do you live the law of chastity?

5. Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

6. Do you affiliate with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or do you sympathize with the precepts of any such group or individual?

7. Do you earnestly strive to do your duty in the Church and to obey the rules, laws, and commandments of the gospel?

8. Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

9. Are you a full-tithe payer?

10. Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?

11. Do you keep all the covenants that you made in the temple, including wearing the authorized garments both day and night?

12. Has there been any sin or misdeed in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but has not?

13. Do you consider yourself worthy in every way to enter the temple and participate in temple ordinances?

One of these question concerns the payment of tithes. We believe that the commandment given in the Old Testament has never been rescinded. To most practicing Mormons, it's simply part of what it means to live your religion. All of the questions are equally important, and not complying with any one of them would be reason to not get a temple recommend. For me, keeping the Word of Wisdom (our health code) is a lot harder than paying tithing. I love wine, and I would dearly love to have a glass of wine with my dinner now and then (as in most every night) . But I can't do that and claim to be fully committed to what is expected of a member of the Church who is deemed worthy to attend the temple. So yeah, while I have been tremendously blessed without ever having done anything to deserve many of the blessings I've received, I do have to pay my tithing to get a temple recommend. I have to pay in every way that involves any kind of sacrifice on my part, but to me, it's worth it. You see, we make certain promises and commitments in the temple. If a person can't meet the requirements necessary to go to the temple in the first place, it's not very likely that they'll live up to what they promise when they actually go to the temple.

The short and easy answer in bold. One must pay, or they don't get the blessings.

This is alarming to me.