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If this is seriously where you're connecting religion with "harmful", it's an awful justification for actually using that terminology. It would mean that literally any two opposite views are "harmful". For example, the view that the Beatles were the greatest rock band is "harmful" by this reasoning, as is the view that the Rolling Stones were.
I hope you can see what I mean. In and of itself, a view that can be disagreed with is not harmful by any standard use of the word.
BTW, would you also characterize that which has potential for helping others as "helpful"? And if not, why not?
I'm not so sure about the "unnecessary" part, either. It would be very difficult to know whether the presence of religion has led to more harm than good. As for "zero evidence", how is it that some religious people make claims with no evidence (depending on how we define that term) but others do not? More critical thinking needs to be applied here, as I said.
And we would do well to ask "How?" "Why?" It can't just be "irreconcilable differences", because these are absolutely everywhere and would be if religion had never existed.
And you're sure you're not just equating these two? (harm and risk) Because that might be the problem.
And yet, I've heard atheists tell theists they're wasting their lives, should leave their religion, etc. all "because" of the belief that there isn't a god. I'm sorry, this just seems very biased. When an atheist says things like this to a Christian, for example, we note that since not all atheists are like that therefore atheism (positive atheism, I mean) isn't what's causing that mentality. We can think objectively about that but not this. When it comes to theism, we attribute all of the different endings to theism (especially the bad ones), instead of asking important questions about the wide variation of "results" we see every day.
Really? Because I just take that as a logical point of fact. One thing doesn't follow from the other.
That would depend on many factors. But the problem I have with the FSM and the like is simply my own conviction that these are made up specifically to try and refute theism. If these religions were older and I was convinced people were sincere about believing in them, experiencing the FSM, etc. maybe I'd be more inclined to compare them. Moreover, I should not think a pure mind (barring the "bearded man in the sky" caricature) is as improbable a cause of space and time as something made of spaghetti or luggage!
That's a good post and well thought out as set out very clearly a very understandable argument. And yet, it is wrong, I think, and wrong because of a misunderstanding of atheists and their argument. One reason we are her is to correct that
For a start, your Beatles analogy is wrong. Because just having different tastes in music is not harmful. But, if those divisions let to one side disenfranchising the others, dividing families, dominating politics and threatening education, then it would be harmful. In fact the 'non -stamp collector' analogy already covers this.
Religion is based on Faith; atheism on validated evidence and reason. You can't say that one only ever is logical and the other never uses evidence, but atheism in the end comes down to evidence and logic and theism in the end appeals to faith.
Perhaps I can respond further and I can explain more, but I have to meet someone at two.
I'm beginning to realize more and more that these folks are invited, and encouraged. This forum doesn't WANT people like you and me here. This forum isn't for Christians...it's for people to talk bad about Christians .
Ivory Towers! Ivory Towers! False religions must search for their Ivory Towers, where pillars of sand and pillars of salt won't crumble. Ivory Towers! But then mostly likely they'll be again at each other's throats instead of focused on ours.
Last edited by LuminousTruth; 01-04-2019 at 12:49 AM..
The personality worship and idolization of the Jesus character (whatever each individual and conflicting Christian had in mind) was indeed to fetish levels when I was looking around. I gave it a serious try as well. I even told a Jehova's Witness that their religion was false and that Evangelicalism was true (thinking about the brides of Christ and how each Church is one of Jesus' polygamist brides-to-be, not even knowing that evangelicalism isn't a denomination (the idea was that as Protestants, only JW and Mormons were going to be "unsaved" but all other Protestants were largely fine with our "Evangelical Churches" being better in truth than the still-saved Baptists and Methodists, etc. Ignorance is bliss and a great motivator.
According to the Bible, lying is 2 of the 7 things God hates. I always find it oddly fascinating when a believer is caught lying. Like, you believe God is real and yet you casually go about doing the one thing He apparently hates more than all others?
People are just as dishonest to try to prove that God doesn't exist. For example, when someone start a thread about churches closing, but says "if not imaginary, is an absolute do nothing", but then his first respond is: that's not it, it's because he doesn't exist. I called his dishonesty and was told I just don't understand the premise of the argument.
But there is another reason why I find your comment interesting. Two of the arguments atheists use are: a) the Bible is a mythological book. b) believers can't even follow God's rules. Therefore c) god doesn't exist. It doesn't take a smart person to figure out that c doesn't follow from a and b being true. It is perfectly logical to say a and b are true while believing in God. The definition of myth is: "a usually traditional story of ostensibly historical events that serves to unfold part of the world view of a people or explain a practice, belief, or natural phenomenon."
But perhaps the main argument atheists use is: there is no evidence. There are several aspects of life you assume as real of which there is absolutely no evidence. Just look and you'll find how you take for granted things for which no evidence is possible. How many people here believe love is real? If you were to say that my mother's love doesn't exist because I can't give credible evidence, then you'll be crazy. But I know others have experienced love one way or another, so I don't need to prove my mother's love.
That's just one example. If you are honest with yourself you'll find many more.
People are just as dishonest to try to prove that God doesn't exist. For example, when someone start a thread about churches closing, but says "if not imaginary, is an absolute do nothing", but then his first respond is: that's not it, it's because he doesn't exist. I called his dishonesty and was told I just don't understand the premise of the argument.
But there is another reason why I find your comment interesting. Two of the arguments atheists use are: a) the Bible is a mythological book. b) believers can't even follow God's rules. Therefore c) god doesn't exist. It doesn't take a smart person to figure out that c doesn't follow from a and b being true. It is perfectly logical to say a and b are true while believing in God. The definition of myth is: "a usually traditional story of ostensibly historical events that serves to unfold part of the world view of a people or explain a practice, belief, or natural phenomenon."
But perhaps the main argument atheists use is: there is no evidence. There are several aspects of life you assume as real of which there is absolutely no evidence. Just look and you'll find how you take for granted things for which no evidence is possible. How many people here believe love is real? If you were to say that my mother's love doesn't exist because I can't give credible evidence, then you'll be crazy. But I know others have experienced love one way or another, so I don't need to prove my mother's love.
That's just one example. If you are honest with yourself you'll find many more.
Many of us are not anti-god. Most actually. some are, that's true, but you theist have some dangerous people in your ranks too.
Some of us (atheist) just list the observations we have, link the observations in a capstone story, or unifying theory and cross check the results with what we see going on around us. A christian, or other omni gods, is not the most logical conclusion.
I'm beginning to realize more and more that these folks are invited, and encouraged. This forum doesn't WANT people like you and me here. This forum isn't for Christians...it's for people to talk bad about Christians .
The irony is that it gives you and Mr5150 the chance to talk bad about atheists.
A big hint, your persecution is showing.
Edit: I have noticed you chose to ignore our responses so that you could 'talk bad' about us.
But there is another reason why I find your comment interesting. Two of the arguments atheists use are: a) the Bible is a mythological book. b) believers can't even follow God's rules. Therefore c) god doesn't exist.
We do? I have never seen your conclusion from the second; and I think you are not understanding the first argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelogo
But perhaps the main argument atheists use is: there is no evidence. There are several aspects of life you assume as real of which there is absolutely no evidence. Just look and you'll find how you take for granted things for which no evidence is possible. How many people here believe love is real? If you were to say that my mother's love doesn't exist because I can't give credible evidence, then you'll be crazy. But I know others have experienced love one way or another, so I don't need to prove my mother's love.
You went off the road. You started on the road of 'no evidence', then detoured onto the road of 'having evidence'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelogo
That's just one example. If you are honest with yourself you'll find many more.
You do not understand, therefore we are not honest with ourselves?
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