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Yeah but the problem is that there isn't even the potential for harm without certain doctrines or mindsets. If you start with just religion, there isn't anything but a collection of beliefs which can, again, be harmful, helpful or neutral.
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Originally Posted by monumentus
Except there is. The potential for harm, as I said multiple times now, exist whenever irreconcilable differences arise.
If this is seriously where you're connecting religion with "harmful", it's an awful justification for actually using that terminology. It would mean that literally any two opposite views are "harmful". For example, the view that the Beatles were the greatest rock band is "harmful" by this reasoning, as is the view that the Rolling Stones were.
I hope you can see what I mean. In and of itself, a view that can be disagreed with is not harmful by any standard use of the word.
BTW, would you also characterize that which has potential for helping others as "helpful"? And if not, why not?
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Religion is for the most part in the business of producing claims for which there is zero evidence. Therefore while it is not the totality of this issue in our world - it is a massive and unnecessary source of it.
I'm not so sure about the "unnecessary" part, either. It would be very difficult to know whether the presence of religion has led to more harm than good. As for "zero evidence", how is it that some religious people make claims with no evidence (depending on how we define that term) but others do not? More critical thinking needs to be applied here, as I said.
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Irreconcilible differences almost invariably lead to a break down in communication. Breakdowns in communication lead to all kinds of things and divisions. Including in many cases to violence. One only has to look at the divisions, schisms and even outright violence between various forms of Christianity and Islam and other religions for examples of this. What started out as mere disagreements ultimately escalated to divisions, schisms, violence and even deaths.
And we would do well to ask "How?" "Why?" It can't just be "irreconcilable differences", because these are absolutely everywhere and would be if religion had never existed.
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It is where communication breaks down that humans go seriously awry. Therefore anything that can cause communication to break down is a harm and a risk.
And you're sure you're not just equating these two? (harm and risk) Because that might be the problem.
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I see no reason why not. But that does not mean the potentials are equal either. There are many variables in play there. For example few of the claims made by such atheists are all that important nor does anything raise their relative importance. Because it is not dealing with things like their eternal well being, after lives, or any other claims without substance. Nothing about saying there is no god leads to any assumptions on how one should or should not live for example. One has to import other things like Humanism to get there.
And yet, I've heard atheists tell theists they're wasting their lives, should leave their religion, etc. all "because" of the belief that there isn't a god. I'm sorry, this just seems very biased. When an atheist says things like this to a Christian, for example, we note that since not all atheists are like that therefore atheism (positive atheism, I mean) isn't what's causing that mentality. We can think objectively about that but not this. When it comes to theism, we attribute all of the different endings to theism (especially the bad ones), instead of asking important questions about the wide variation of "results" we see every day.
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Well for a start I do not believe the assertion theists often make that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Really? Because I just take that as a logical point of fact. One thing doesn't follow from the other.
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Finally a different linguistic point is indeed actually worth making. If the linguistics here can mean anything at all - rather than pedantry rendering them meaning nothing - we have to look at all the other seemingly non-existent things. Leprechauns and fairies and the FSM. I could make up a beast right now and give it all kinds of weird and wonderful and even comical attributes. Like the Sentient Walking Luggage in Discworld. I think we can assume you will operate under relative near certainty that these things do not exist.
That would depend on many factors. But the problem I have with the FSM and the like is simply my own conviction that these are made up specifically to try and refute theism. If these religions were older and I was convinced people were sincere about believing in them, experiencing the FSM, etc. maybe I'd be more inclined to compare them. Moreover, I should not think a pure mind (barring the "bearded man in the sky" caricature) is as improbable a cause of space and time as something made of spaghetti or luggage!
Religious forums? Seems like a waste of time and electrons. Why post on a forum of which is devoted to a subject of which holds no relevance to one. I don’t knit or fly airplanes. I don’t visit knitting or airplane forums. So why all the none-spiritual people on this forum? Uncertain about one’s belief system? Perhaps.
If I’ve asked this question before, forgive me. I am simply perplexed.
I'm beginning to realize more and more that these folks are invited, and encouraged. This forum doesn't WANT people like you and me here. This forum isn't for Christians...it's for people to talk bad about Christians .
I'm beginning to realize more and more that these folks are invited, and encouraged. This forum doesn't WANT people like you and me here. This forum isn't for Christians...it's for people to talk bad about Christians .
This is so simple that it's embarrassing to even have to explain it to you.
See the title of this sub-forum? "Religion & Spirituality". I don't see the word christian in the title at all. But you think that because christianity is your religion that it's the religion. It's any religion. It's any spirituality. And it's not a worship sub-forum, it's a place to discuss religion. Favorable viewpoints. Unfavorable viewpoints. If people want to talk about Buddhism -- my religion -- fine with me. If they want to talk about the favorable points of it...great. If they want to talk about the negative aspects of it...fine with me, too. I may agree with some, disagree with hours. And you see, the difference is, I'm not afraid that Buddhism is so weak that it's going to collapse if someone has a negative view of it.
On the other hand...look up the forum and see one sub-forum specifically about x-ianity. To me, at least, that's for christians to live in their echo chamber. I don't go in there unless I feel way harassed here. I reserve that for you and your ilk.
This is so simple that it's embarrassing to even have to explain it to you.
See the title of this sub-forum? "Religion & Spirituality". I don't see the word christian in the title at all. But you think that because christianity is your religion that it's the religion. It's any religion. It's any spirituality. And it's not a worship sub-forum, it's a place to discuss religion. Favorable viewpoints. Unfavorable viewpoints. If people want to talk about Buddhism -- my religion -- fine with me. If they want to talk about the favorable points of it...great. If they want to talk about the negative aspects of it...fine with me, too. I may agree with some, disagree with hours. And you see, the difference is, I'm not afraid that Buddhism is so weak that it's going to collapse if someone has a negative view of it.
On the other hand...look up the forum and see one sub-forum specifically about x-ianity. To me, at least, that's for christians to live in their echo chamber. I don't go in there unless I feel way harassed here. I reserve that for you and your ilk.
Some people's glass is forever half-empty and they try to fill it with whine.
I will throw out, just for fun, 40 questions or problems with Christianity that no Christian has ever been able to answer or discuss logically, to my satisfaction (although MYSTIC has yet to try)
My son and I discuss that Christianity is a bad idea. It is an unhealthy philosophy, an unattractive way of life, and in no way excites or interests me. But I am fascinated with why people may like it and follow it.....
Then again, I am fascinated with the Bigfoot too, not in that it is not real, but in WHY people are so fascinated with it...and other monsters.
This is so simple that it's embarrassing to even have to explain it to you.
See the title of this sub-forum? "Religion & Spirituality". I don't see the word christian in the title at all. But you think that because christianity is your religion that it's the religion. It's any religion. It's any spirituality. And it's not a worship sub-forum, it's a place to discuss religion. Favorable viewpoints. Unfavorable viewpoints. If people want to talk about Buddhism -- my religion -- fine with me. If they want to talk about the favorable points of it...great. If they want to talk about the negative aspects of it...fine with me, too. I may agree with some, disagree with hours. And you see, the difference is, I'm not afraid that Buddhism is so weak that it's going to collapse if someone has a negative view of it.
On the other hand...look up the forum and see one sub-forum specifically about x-ianity. To me, at least, that's for christians to live in their echo chamber. I don't go in there unless I feel way harassed here. I reserve that for you and your ilk.
Yet, so much of the bad-mouthing is specifically about Christians. It's encouraged and invited. Here and in the sub-forum.
Because most are intrigued that in the 21st century, there are still a large segment of the population that believes as adults not only in an imaginary friend, but that the imaginary friend has an imaginary enemy.
It intrigues to no end the mental gymnastics so many go through in justifying their mythological perspectives.
Because most are intrigued that in the 21st century, there are still a large segment of the population that believes as adults not only in an imaginary friend, but that the imaginary friend has an imaginary enemy.
It intrigues to no end the mental gymnastics so many go through in justifying their mythological perspectives.
But is it Healthy???????? Is it in one's best interests to do so?
Does a self loving and self actualized human being need an angry god or his enemy?
I'm beginning to realize more and more that these folks are invited, and encouraged. This forum doesn't WANT people like you and me here. This forum isn't for Christians...it's for people to talk bad about Christians .
Yes, it's the way the forums are a labeled and the stated terms of service that seem to invite people to share/ask questions. The problem with open discussion forums is that they require some openness to diversity;otherwise, it's just a lecture platform for snide remarks by know-it-alls.
If you'd like to continue to post here, try not to take it to seriously.
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