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Old 12-22-2018, 11:59 PM
 
12,918 posts, read 16,872,913 times
Reputation: 5434

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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
There are many ways to get community and fellowship. Go to the YMCA. Join meetup.com. Go to the senior center. It may flabbergast you to know that people in non-christian countries don't rely on a christian church for community and fellowship.

Do christians always throw in an insult in every conversation? That doesn't seem very fellowship-like. The christians I know don't. Maybe you're not getting the right kind of fellowship.
If you are saying I should go to church more, then maybe you are right.
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Old 12-23-2018, 12:20 AM
 
6,115 posts, read 3,092,120 times
Reputation: 2410
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
I think GoCard and those of his ilk have the ability to make wanna-believe, trump reason-to-believe.

They call it faith.

Others, including me, have other words for it.
And whom I am trying to make believe? You?
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Old 12-23-2018, 12:45 AM
 
6,115 posts, read 3,092,120 times
Reputation: 2410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
You confuse faith with trust and probability that is based on verifiable evidence and experience. When we get on an aeroplane to travel to the other side of the world, we do not take it of 'faith' that we will get to our destination. What we do is examine the verifiable evidence and the verifiable evidence is that 99.9% of aeroplanes reach their destination. We don't test a chair before we sit on it because the verifiable evidence is that 99.9% of chairs do no not collapse when people sit on them.

So our decisions are taken based on what is verifiable, known, trusted and proven. Contrast that with 'faith' which is ... 'believing that something is true when there is no verifiable evidence to show that it is and, in many cases, verifiable evidence to show that it isn't true.' So IF the verifiable evidence was that 99.9% of aeroplanes crashed before reaching their destinations but we still got on them or 99.9% of chairs collapsed when people sat on them but we still sat on them, well THEN we would be operating on 'faith' if we still flew on aeroplanes or sat on chairs without testing them first... because we are believing something is true when their is no verifiable evidence that it is or verifiable/testable evidence that it isn't true.

Do you not see the difference between believing/accepting that something is true based on verifiable, testable evidence and believing that something is true on 'faith'?

So to answer your post. No. I do not take my morning pills based on faith. I take them based on the experience, knowledge and verifiable evidence that they have been tested and analysed, gone through vigorous safety and quality control and that the same pills have been taken by me for some 20 years without incident. Now it's possible that some terrorist has contaminated the batch I am going to take...but is the possibility of that high enough to have me taking them on 'faith'? Of course not!
So think about it.
What kinda “data” would you need to believe in the existence of God?

From your logic, the one I can think of would sound something like this.

“153K people die every day, which is roughly about what? 55 million people that die every year.
Out of those 55 million 99.9% come back to life for a few minutes to tell us that there is a God”

Does that even make sense to you?

If yes, then good luck. Keep on waiting till this happens.

And as I have stated many times before that I have no problem if someone!s logic, intelligence and common sense tells them that the entire universe and everything in it came together all by itself, and hence there is no God, or call it a force, that designed and created it all.

If that’s what you believe then that’s what you believe. I don’t have an issue with that.
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Old 12-23-2018, 04:03 AM
 
Location: Germany
16,786 posts, read 4,992,682 times
Reputation: 2121
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Again, you are putting faith in someone else’s work - and that’s not a proof.
Faith based on evidence.

Bridges rarely fall, planes usually fly without accidents, medicines usually work.

You admit your faith has no evidence, and I respect that honesty. But that is the difference between the two.
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Old 12-23-2018, 04:13 AM
 
Location: Germany
16,786 posts, read 4,992,682 times
Reputation: 2121
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
From demanding “Verifiable evidence to prove the existence of God or else I don’t believe” - to - oh no, no one asking proof or 100% guarantee.

Ironic, isn’t it?
Yes (for the proof) and no (for the verifiable evidence). Asking for 'verifiable evidence' is the same as 'not asking for proof or 100% guarantee'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
For the nth time, faith based belief in God is *NOT* based on evidence - so no point in demanding the evidence of God.
And for the nth time, if you have no evidence:
1) we have no reason to believe, and
2) logically your belief must be most likely false.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
The problem you guys seem to have is an understanding, meaning and the concept behind the word “faith”.
We have the problem you can not grasp the difference between evidence based faith and faith without evidence?

It seems it is you who has a problem understanding words.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
As I stated earlier, you can try to get the word “faith” removed from the dictionary and from the English language if you believe no such exists.
Your straw man has nothing to do with our arguments.
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Old 12-23-2018, 04:16 AM
 
Location: Germany
16,786 posts, read 4,992,682 times
Reputation: 2121
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Are you for real? Good luck!

People still want that community and fellowship with each other. That's a healthy part of being a human being. The Bible provides a way for that to happen. It contains stories of people united together in common faith. People can work together in spite of their differences because they are able to place others above themselves, and focusing on the needs of others is natural and good for a person to do.

Atheism is unnatural.

It's really sad that some people are so blind to that.
Once again you visit Ozzyworld.
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Old 12-23-2018, 04:20 AM
 
Location: Germany
16,786 posts, read 4,992,682 times
Reputation: 2121
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
So think about it.
What kinda “data” would you need to believe in the existence of God?

From your logic, the one I can think of would sound something like this.

“153K people die every day, which is roughly about what? 55 million people that die every year.
Out of those 55 million 99.9% come back to life for a few minutes to tell us that there is a God”

Does that even make sense to you?

If yes, then good luck. Keep on waiting till this happens.
So your god behaves as if it is not there?
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Old 12-23-2018, 04:41 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
16,155 posts, read 12,865,041 times
Reputation: 2881
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
So think about it.
What kinda “data” would you need to believe in the existence of God?

From your logic, the one I can think of would sound something like this.

“153K people die every day, which is roughly about what? 55 million people that die every year.
Out of those 55 million 99.9% come back to life for a few minutes to tell us that there is a God”

Does that even make sense to you?
No it doesn't. It's gobbldegook and nothing at all to do with the difference between 'faith' and trust based on verifiable evidence.
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Old 12-23-2018, 05:10 AM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,591,051 times
Reputation: 2070
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
Look, everyone may have a different journey as to how they formed their faith - and I can't speak for all. I can't judge them all. I think there isn't a one size fits all rule to form a faith.

In my personal opinion, the way it works is, and I have posted this many times.
I get it gc.

But you start at "Faith" needs no evidence.". You are starting with "I need no evidence to believe what I want to believe."

I just don't see how you thinks that's ok. Believe me GC, we atheist that think the exact same way. They don't care, not one bit, what science data shows, they will deny anything that points to us being part of a larger more complex system better described as life over describing it as non life.

I just do get how people can just belief what they want because they want to. people running around doing this leads us to anti-religious socialism and fascism theism. and they will kill anybody that doesn't follow a blind faith.
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Old 12-23-2018, 05:13 AM
 
28,432 posts, read 11,591,051 times
Reputation: 2070
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
So think about it.
What kinda “data” would you need to believe in the existence of God?

From your logic, the one I can think of would sound something like this.

“153K people die every day, which is roughly about what? 55 million people that die every year.
Out of those 55 million 99.9% come back to life for a few minutes to tell us that there is a God”

Does that even make sense to you?

If yes, then good luck. Keep on waiting till this happens.

And as I have stated many times before that I have no problem if someone!s logic, intelligence and common sense tells them that the entire universe and everything in it came together all by itself, and hence there is no God, or call it a force, that designed and created it all.

If that’s what you believe then that’s what you believe. I don’t have an issue with that.
no GC, its about assigning traits to god. I just can't, in all honesty. teach that blind faith is anything but nonsense and dangerous. we would not have made cell phones if we just believed what we wanted.

what traits do you assign it that lead back to what we know?

list one, lets see if we can link it to the standard model. its better you do it, but I think I need to show you how we think as apposed to what we think.
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