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My belief in God does not in any way deny reality or reason. You start from the false premise that faith contradicts reason. It does not.
Oh but it does - in every single case. Faith is what you use when the evidence tells you what you don't want to be true. Faith is the last refuge of those who have had their arguments defeated by logic and reason. Faith is simply the practice of ignoring the supportable in favour of a desired belief. So let's hear some arguments for 'faith' that are based on logic or reason.
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You say that you have every reason to desire eternal life. But will you earnestly evaluate the evidence? Do you think that DNA--which is basically a form of code like a computer code, and more complex than any computer code ever written--could write itself? I mean, without God, that's what you're left with. Even atheist cosmologies fail, as there is no mechanism to explain the formation of stars and planets--even if a Big Bang that caused the universe to spring into existence (for no reason at all) happened. The emergence of such order from disorder violates the second law of thermodynamics.
These are the argument we get from people who simply read it from their favourite Christian apologist sites without knowing a thing about it. There is no 'order' in the universe. It is a violent and dangerous place. All day, every day planets are forming and being destroyed, smashing into each other and exploding. What is this 'order' that you see?
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We know the universe had a beginning.
We know THIS universe had a beginning but it is not known what was here before. Can you provide verifiable evidence that the universe has NOT always been here in some form or another?
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I can show you more about evolution and all its flaws, but I understand that topic is verboten here. So let me know and I can show you.
Well you could always bring it to the science forum where it is allowed and where there are experts that, frankly, would chew you up and spit you out in your first post. But perhaps I'm wrong and you do know what you are talking about.
Perhaps the mods will indulge me here by allowing me to ask you two very simple question in order to ascertain whether or not you can 'show us more about evolution and it's flaws' or whether you are simply copy/pasting from the nearest Christian apologist site. If you can answer them we could then retire to the science forum to discuss the flaws that you see in evolution.
Questions:
1. Would you please explain to us the general idea of DNA genome mapping and how it is used to track the genotypic background of a modern species?
2. Explain three types of tRNA or DNA transcription errors in mitosis.
Here's what I KNOW you and others will never believe, ...
And you? Will you ever believe in Ganesh? Will you ever believe that your god does not exist. If the answer to those two questions is no, please explain how you are different to us.
The emergence of such order from disorder violates the second law of thermodynamics.
Yep! Thought so. Straight from the pages of a Christian apologist site.
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You might respond with the typical canard: if the universe needed a creator, then doesn't God? That's been debunked,
It has been 'debunked' only on 'special pleading'. In other words, Christians set the parameters that they say apply to ALL THINGS and then they follow that with...'Oh By the way. My god is not subject to the parameters that everything else is subject to.' But please, if that is not the case, explain how it has been debunked.
You say that you have every reason to desire eternal life. But will you earnestly evaluate the evidence?
We already have looked at the evidence. You refuse to do so.
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Originally Posted by snj90
Do you think that DNA--which is basically a form of code like a computer code, and more complex than any computer code ever written--could write itself? I mean, without God, that's what you're left with.
We can explain this to honest people willing to learn in the science section.
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Originally Posted by snj90
Even atheist cosmologies fail, as there is no mechanism to explain the formation of stars and planets--even if a Big Bang that caused the universe to spring into existence (for no reason at all) happened.
Gravity. NEXT.
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Originally Posted by snj90
The emergence of such order from disorder violates the second law of thermodynamics.
So snowflakes do not exist? As they do, then there is something wrong with your argument. We know what that is, and will happily explain it in the relevant section. Hint, it is not General Moving Issues.
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Originally Posted by snj90
You might respond with the typical canard: if the universe needed a creator, then doesn't God? That's been debunked, as it were. (A highly misused term that atheists love.)
No, you simply invent excuses and pretend it has been debunked. Which leaves you with special pleading a most improbable god.
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Originally Posted by snj90
We know the universe had a beginning. We didn't always know that; Aristotle, for example, believed the universe had no beginning. But we now know the universe had a beginning. The theory of relatively suggests as much. https://www.allaboutscience.org/theo...relativity.htm
It suggests that space and time had a beginning. So, given the order in the universe, you need an intelligent Creator who exists outside of space of time, who has existed since eternity past.
Not only is your old and tired assertion without evidence begging the question, the probability of an intelligent god just existing for no reason is so improbable as to be virtually impossible.
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Originally Posted by snj90
It's difficult to imagine anything existing since eternity past, but we know this is an inevitability, regardless of which view of the universe you subscribe to. In short, only things that were created (such as the universe, and the genetic information that gives rise to all life forms) need a creator.
A creator like natural forces. No virtually impossible intelligence is required.
And creation.com are liars for Christ. So you STILL have nothing.
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Originally Posted by snj90
I can show you more about evolution and all its flaws, but I understand that topic is verboten here. So let me know and I can show you.
It is not verboten in the science section. Except you do not have any science, only videos from liars for Christ. Sorry, I meant creationists.
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Originally Posted by snj90
Anyhow, really, how do you explain consciousness solely with material processes? It plainly cannot be done. Without consciousness, or a soul, we're philosophical zombies: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie
You should read that article you linked to, especially where Marvin Minsky pointed out the argument is circular.
And we can link you to REAL SCIENCE about consciousness in the science section (where honest people discuss science).
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Originally Posted by snj90
Here's the problem: God would be perfectly just to send everyone to hell. Every single person, as none of us can live up to His righteousness. However, God goes beyond this and offers mercy, which He is not required to do. Eternal life is a gracious gift from God. It is totally unearned.
Yes, you have already admitted your god is the most evil monster possible.
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Originally Posted by snj90
You yourself said: you have every reason to believe in God and the afterlife. Wouldn't it behoove you to explore this topic honestly?
Should you not be the first to start exploring honestly?
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Originally Posted by snj90
Now, if you'd like to be saved, there are plenty of quick, concise online resources to help you get saved. I'll post the link below.
We already have looked at the evidence. You refuse to do so.
We can explain this to honest people willing to learn in the science section.
Gravity. NEXT.
So snowflakes do not exist? As they do, then there is something wrong with your argument. We know what that is, and will happily explain it in the relevant section. Hint, it is not General Moving Issues.
No, you simply invent excuses and pretend it has been debunked. Which leaves you with special pleading a most improbable god.
Not only is your old and tired assertion without evidence begging the question, the probability of an intelligent god just existing for no reason is so improbable as to be virtually impossible.
A creator like natural forces. No virtually impossible intelligence is required.
it would almost be otiose for me to add to the excellent refutations above of snj's recycling of the stock apologetics for religion (which still doesn't show which one is the right one or which god one should believe in - I already debunked the vid. attempting to disprove the Quran - it rather destroyed the NT - claims). You did a good job of showing how Thermo 2. is misunderstood or misrepresented by the apologists. Obviously order, based on natural physics, does emerge, in various crystals for example. And the argument that the earth should have wound down by now (which we sometimes get) is refuted by the earth not being a closed system - it gets new energy from the sun every day. Of course it will probably all run down at some unimaginable date in the future, but so what?
It's remarkable how samey these evangelical packages are. Try to debunk everything that science is supposed to know and then a wild leap to Jesus and a call to brainwash ourselves into faith.
I have responded too many times to be able to count.
I check almost every day, never to see Mystic, Arach or Pneuma there.
For some strange reason, I find I do more science here in this forum (although I try (but often fail) not to go in too deep).
Well, if you're wanting to have science-based religion and spirituality debates, everyone needs to be up to par on the element table. The element table is what some may call an example of faith as we have place holders for unknown elements..."we know they must be there because of how the other elements behave".
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Except you do not have any science, only videos from liars for Christ. Sorry, I meant creationists.
