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Old 12-08-2022, 11:47 AM
 
3,573 posts, read 1,149,707 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Oh wait...first you speak for most atheists and now you say there are all kinds of atheism. Hmmmmm.
Why not? I made a sammary in my mynd, do you have one?
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Old 12-08-2022, 11:56 AM
 
29,339 posts, read 9,484,554 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
What are your qualifications to speak for "Most atheists"? You certainly don't speak for me.
If you believe "there is something after death," there is many a definition of atheism and many an atheist that might argue you are not actually an atheist at all. Not to believe in a god is not the only criteria or definition of atheism according to many an atheist that is. As such, I'm not sure how well you can speak for other atheists. Or all Buddhists for that matter. Some of whom also don't believe "there is something after death." You certainly don't speak for me in this regard either, but of course there are all kinds of "derivatives" with respect to what people believe or claim to be that makes it hard if not impossible to argue either way.

Religious people who claim they are spiritual. Spiritual people who claim religious people are not. Atheists who claim to be spiritual and so on. It can get a little confusing sometimes. Ultimately, I guess we can all claim whatever we want to claim. That's for sure when it comes to this forum...
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Old 12-08-2022, 12:00 PM
 
6,109 posts, read 3,044,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Thanks! Let me try again...

First, how probabilities work is not a matter of opinion. No more than how algebra works is a matter of opinion.

Secondly, regardless the question, if the only answers allowed are either a "yes" or "no," then it is true there is a 50/50 chance one or the other answer will be given. This, however, does not mean the probability is the same with regard to whether a yes or no answer is correct.

If we don't establish this fundamental understanding, it is hard to go much further, but aside from the odds and/or probabilities, what you further explain is also difficult for me to accept given my way of thinking or understanding...

Of course belief in God comes from faith and not evidence. This is why faith is called upon. Why it's called faith, and anything can be said to be built by research and "looking for signs," but without the results of the research or a sharing of these signs that demonstrate the existence of a god, for example, it is impossible to judge the merit of whatever conclusions are drawn. Ultimately, if we're back to faith, the implication is that no good research or sign or evidence exists. Or what is it please?

I have to question your belief about what the brain does vs what "comes from the heart" as well. All evidence I am aware of lends no credence to anything along these lines "coming from the heart." Look up the function of the heart in our bodies for the facts about this too. All our thoughts, notions, opinions and beliefs are created by our brains, based on the best of our abilities to learn what we can from all there is to learn from.

To confuse these facts, sources, research, signs or proofs is the very thing of religion and/or spirituality. This and/or the unwillingness to share what is so convincing about a god based on this research and/or these signs. All of which for those of us not so inclined to leave these questions unanswered is entirely unconvincing. In part why I am an atheist.

Sincerely,

LM
There is a granularity even in this one.
Some modern science now indicates that our heart contains the same exact neurons that our brain is made with, so the heart may just have a brain of it's own.
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Old 12-08-2022, 12:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
I don't see intuition itself as a cognitive bias. I think the biases come in when we try and interpret what our intuition is trying to tell us. That's been my experience anyway. I don't know how to read it.
You touch on an interesting point or question...

I've often noted how people who claim to have good intuitions tend to lean in one direction or another in terms of interpreting those intuitions. Where the cognitive bias begin or ends, I'm not sure, but I think there is some bias going on in terms of preconceived notions by those who claim intuition. Then again, I'm not even sure there is a common understanding or agreement about what intuition actually is. When I have a sense about something, is that intuition? Personally, I don't ever claim I have intuition. I say I have a sense about something, or that my "gut" is telling me one thing or another. Same thing?
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Old 12-08-2022, 12:01 PM
 
477 posts, read 119,373 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
IMO, one of the major ways probabilities work is, "What question are we trying to answer?"
The question here is, Is there a consciousness after death? The simple answers are Yes or No. (and obviously, the empirical answer is, "We don't really know".)
So, generally speaking, probability in our particular scenario is 50/50

Interesting.


Will your neighbor get hit by a car on his way to work?
The simple answers are Yes or No. (and obviously, the empirical answer is, "We don't really know".)
So, generally speaking, probability in our particular scenario is 50/50.


Will I see a unicorn on my next walk with my dog?
The simple answers are Yes or No. (and obviously, the empirical answer is, "We don't really know".)
So, generally speaking, probability in our particular scenario is 50/50.

I can continue for a long time, but I hope my point is clear.
It seems to me that your understanding of how probabilities work has absolutely nothing to do with how probabilities work in reality.
It also seems to me that in your life you actually completely ignore your own understanding of how probabilities work, otherwise you would not be able to live long enough to express your completely nonsensical understanding of how probabilities work.


And this is the most fascinating part for me.
How strange some people's relationship with logic, reason and common sense must be if they believe in something to be true while they themselves prove this something to be wrong by basically every step they make!
Amazing!!!
Quote:
And then obviously, we can't define the evidence of God. We don't have a scientific formula where the numbers will be plugged in and the result will prove an entity to be God or not? And we also dont have a chemicals test where we can put an entity under a microscope to study the specie, run some tests and refer to a book or a chart, and prove that this entity is God.
Yes, we obviously can and we obviously do!
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Old 12-08-2022, 12:02 PM
 
Location: minnesota
15,791 posts, read 6,190,099 times
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Heaven or Hell isn't really a good answer to what happens after death anyway. Saying you'll be separated from God or reunited with Him doesn't answer anything. What's that like? Is that like harps playing your favorite music while you find everyone you've lost? Is hell like having your insides burned by some worm? Unless you have had those things happen it's all mental projecting. How would you explain the world to a newborn? Technically we're ALL still in the womb when it comes to death.
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Old 12-08-2022, 12:03 PM
 
Location: minnesota
15,791 posts, read 6,190,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
You touch on an interesting point or question...

I've often noted how people who claim to have good intuitions tend to lean in one direction or another in terms of interpreting those intuitions. Where the cognitive bias begin or ends, I'm not sure, but I think there is some bias going on in terms of preconceived notions by those who claim intuition. Then again, I'm not even sure there is a common understanding or agreement about what intuition actually is. When I have a sense about something, is that intuition? Personally, I don't ever claim I have intuition. I say I have a sense about something, or that my "gut" is telling me one thing or another. Same thing?
I say gut feeling too. I believe that is what they mean as well but I could be wrong.
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Old 12-08-2022, 12:06 PM
 
29,339 posts, read 9,484,554 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals View Post
There is a granularity even in this one.
Some modern science now indicates that our heart contains the same exact neurons that our brain is made with, so the heart may just have a brain of it's own.
If I understand what you mean by granularity, there is a great deal of granularity about all of this once we're allowed to consider what is fact and what is fiction beyond just the yes or no question...

If/when you find any evidence the heart has a brain of it's own, by all means please share that evidence or those "signs" as well. Until then, I'm reading a lot about what you believe and very little in terms of facts, evidence or research that justifies what you believe.

No worries, however, if you are not so inclined. You won't be the first and you certainly will not be the last. I've been around this track too many times to count already.
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Old 12-08-2022, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,084 posts, read 23,749,898 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Duval View Post
Why not? I made a sammary in my mynd, do you have one?
That post speaks for itself.
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Old 12-08-2022, 12:08 PM
 
29,339 posts, read 9,484,554 times
Reputation: 3414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonof View Post
Interesting.

Will your neighbor get hit by a car on his way to work?
The simple answers are Yes or No. (and obviously, the empirical answer is, "We don't really know".)
So, generally speaking, probability in our particular scenario is 50/50.

Will I see a unicorn on my next walk with my dog?
The simple answers are Yes or No. (and obviously, the empirical answer is, "We don't really know".)
So, generally speaking, probability in our particular scenario is 50/50.

I can continue for a long time, but I hope my point is clear.
It seems to me that your understanding of how probabilities work has absolutely nothing to do with how probabilities work in reality.
It also seems to me that in your life you actually completely ignore your own understanding of how probabilities work, otherwise you would not be able to live long enough to express your completely nonsensical understanding of how probabilities work.

And this is the most fascinating part for me.
How strange some people's relationship with logic, reason and common sense must be if they believe in something to be true while they themselves prove this something to be wrong by basically every step they make!
Amazing!!!
Yes, we obviously can and we obviously do!
Again no...

The probability anyone will get hit by a car on their way to work is NOT 50/50!

If that were true, nobody would go to work!

Or imagine if the same question were asked about whether your plane will go down on your next trip. If the odds were 50/50, end of air travel!

Never knew there could be this level of confusion about probabilities!
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