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Old 11-27-2023, 08:21 AM
 
18,207 posts, read 16,810,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TruckeeTami View Post
“Today you will be with me in paradise” (Luke 23:43)

Jesus said this to the thief on the cross hanging beside him ^^^


The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. Luke 16:22



.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RomulusXXV View Post
Below is a copy and paste of the 54 Bible texts that refer to 'death' as 'sleep'. One will see that this is not the evil belief of 'heretics', an accusation aimed by some professed Christians in their biblical ignorance toward those who simply read scripture and perhaps believe what they read as being 100% truth. SO, what do the naysayers of 'death=sleep' have to say about the following scriptures? This IS a scriptural question asked by the OP and so personal opinions are of no value.

Here are the scriptures that answer the OP's question:


Deuteronomy 31:16: “The Lord said to Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers.”

II Samuel 7:12: “When thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers.""

I Kings 1:21: “When my lord the king shall sleep with his fathers.”

I Kings 2:10: “David slept with his fathers.”

I Kings 11:21: “David slept with his fathers.”

I Kings 11:43: “Solomon slept with his fathers.”

I Kings 14:20: “Jeroboam...slept with his fathers.”

I Kings 14:31: “Rehoboam slept with his fathers.”

I Kings 15:8: “Abijam slept with his fathers.”

I Kings 15:24: “Asa slept with his fathers.”

I Kings 16:6: “Baasha slept with his fathers.”

I Kings 16:28: “Omri slept with his fathers.”

I Kings 22:40: “Ahab slept with his fathers.”

I Kings 22:50: “Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers.”

II Kings 8:24: “Joram slept with his fathers”

II Kings 10:35: “Jehu slept with his fathers”

II Kings 13:9: “Jehoahaz slept with his fathers”

II Kings 13:13: “Joash slept with his fathers”

II Kings 14:16: “Jehoash slept with his fathers”

II Kings 14:22: “The king slept with his fathers”

II Kings 14:29: “Jeroboam slept with his fathers”

II Kings 15:7: “Azariah slept with his fathers”

II Kings 15:22: “Menahem slept with his fathers”

II Kings 15:38: “Jotham slept with his fathers”

II Kings 16:20: “Ahaz slept with his fathers”

II Kings 20:21: “Hezekiah slept with his fathers”

II Kings 21: 18: “Manasseh slept with his fathers”

II Kings 24:6: “Jehoiakim slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 9:31: “Solomon slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 12:16: “Rehoaboam slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 14:1: “Abijah slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 16:13: “Asa slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 21:1: “Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 26:2: “The king slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 26:23: “Uzziah slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 27:9: “Jotham slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 28:27: “Ahaz slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 32:33: “Hezekiah slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 33:20: “Manasseh slept with his fathers”

Whether a good king or a bad king, none of these kings are in heaven (or in a burning place); all lie asleep in their graves awaiting the resurrection of the dead.

In Job, believed to be the oldest book in the Bible, death is again referred to as sleep:

Job 7:21: “Now shall I sleep in the dust”

Job 14:12: “They shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep”

In the Psalms, death is a sleep:

Psalm 13:3: “Lest I sleep the sleep of death”

Psalm 90:5: “Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep”

Daniel promises a resurrection of the sleeping dead:

Daniel 12:2: “Many of they that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake”

Jesus described death as “sleep”:

Matthew 9:24: “The maid is not dead but sleepeth.”

Mark 5:39: “The damsel is not dead but sleepeth”

Luke 8:52: “She is not dead but sleepeth”

John 11:11: “Our friend Lazarus sleepeth”

At Jesus’ crucifixion:

Matthew 27:52: “Many bodies of the saints which slept arose”

Luke reiterates I Kings:

Acts 13:36: “David...fell asleep, and was laid unto his fathers”

Paul describes death as sleep:

I Cor. 15:20: “Christ is risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that sleep”

I Cor. 15:51: “We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed”

I Thess 4:13: “I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope”

I Thess. 4:14: “If we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus”

This demonstrates nothing more than that the Bible is a completely unreliable text to base one's beliefs on and to make it the central guide for directing their lives--wasted lives I might opine. Jesus obviously didn't know a hole in the wall from a hole in the ground when it came to his own religion. Why would anyone in their right mind want to follow a figure who could make such an egregious deviation from established Old Testament beliefs? If he is right then he is admitting that the Old Testament was completely wrong in what it taught for 2000 years. Any way you cut it someone is wrong and that proves the Bible is not the inerrant word of God, it's just another human-created religious text no more sacred or reliable than the Veda or Tripitaka. It's pretty foolish to follow a book that contains roughly 50,000 catalogued error and contradictions in it.


50,000 Errors and Biblical contradictions


https://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePa...ictions-190303
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Old 11-27-2023, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
22,949 posts, read 10,303,228 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trusso11783 View Post
I am Catholic. Not super religious but go to church weekly and follow most of it. Quick question. I thought the Bible states that after death, we sleep until Jesus returns and then all of the dead will rise and go to heaven (or hell). Today, I was at a funeral mass. The priest said that the deceased was met by angels and is now in heaven. That is not what I thought the Bible says. Do they say it to comfort the family? Did the priest get it wrong? Is there another contradictory statement that says what the priest said?

Hebrews 8
Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are already priests who offer gifts according to the law. 5The place where they serve is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”

The design of the Tabernacle and the comings and goings of the tabernacle teach what heaven is.
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Old 11-27-2023, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
17,664 posts, read 13,516,963 times
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Quote:
Below is a copy and paste of the 54 Bible texts that refer to 'death' as 'sleep'. One will see that this is not the evil belief of 'heretics', an accusation aimed by some professed Christians in their biblical ignorance toward those who simply read scripture and perhaps believe what they read as being 100% truth. SO, what do the naysayers of 'death=sleep' have to say about the following scriptures? This IS a scriptural question asked by the OP and so personal opinions are of no value.
You did a nice job there and you'd think that "soul sleep" would be a mainstream Christian belief because of all this "evidence".

But it is not.

What we need now is for somebody to trot out the 54 Bible verses that indicate that we get judged and immediately go to our eternal destination.
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Old 11-27-2023, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Townsville
6,663 posts, read 2,841,591 times
Reputation: 5461
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
Below is a copy and paste of the 54 Bible texts that refer to 'death' as 'sleep'. One will see that this is not the evil belief of 'heretics', an accusation aimed by some professed Christians in their biblical ignorance toward those who simply read scripture and perhaps believe what they read as being 100% truth. SO, what do the naysayers of 'death=sleep' have to say about the following scriptures? This IS a scriptural question asked by the OP and so personal opinions are of no value.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
You did a nice job there and you'd think that "soul sleep" would be a mainstream Christian belief because of all this "evidence".

But it is not.

What we need now is for somebody to trot out the 54 Bible verses that indicate that we get judged and immediately go to our eternal destination.
Yes, that would be helpful. As I keep saying, the Bible is the only recognized 'divine source' by Christians and therefore the 'go to' book for answers to questions such as that asked by the OP. I have no idea if the 54 Bible texts tell the real story of what occurs at death but it's all we have other than anecdotal stories of NDE's or wild tales of those who have ventured into hell. I guess the thing that bamboozles me is that even when those 54 Bible texts that refer to 'death' as 'sleep' are presented they are completely ignored, and 'believers' in these texts are referred to as 'heretics' as we've seen here on this thread. Most Christians have become conditioned to taking on board what 'their church' teaches, even if those teachings are opposed to or in conflict with what the Bible - their Holy Book - teaches.
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Old 11-28-2023, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Middle America
10,972 posts, read 7,042,022 times
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Gurdjieff talked about all those "sleep" references, and that they weren't literally about "sleep". The word is a simple and affective way to reference man's lack of awareness in daily life. And it goes way beyond just religion. We tend to miss the majority of what is going on within us and around us. Just think of the small example of all the outer signals we give off, that we miss, that others can pick up on. And inversely, we tend to be so stuck on ourselves and preoccupied with our thoughts and issues that we miss much from others, and remain ignorant of others.

So, it's a big clumsy mess of humanity existing and going through life "asleep". Any worthwhile philosophy and religion should help us: 1) be aware of that, and 2) improve upon that, and transcend the weaknesses and flaws of humanity.

Last edited by Thoreau424; 11-28-2023 at 10:13 AM..
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Old 11-28-2023, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Townsville
6,663 posts, read 2,841,591 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
Gurdjieff talked about all those "sleep" references, and that they weren't literally about "sleep".
I think we all would - or should - know that the word 'sleep' as we read in the Bible is simply a metaphor for 'death'. The point being, of course, is that the dead DO lie in a sleep-like condition until the resurrection spoken of by the Bible authors. Humans can relate to 'sleep' and RIP (Rest in Peace) is a common phrase that is uttered by many Christians, probably even by those who may not believe in the 'sleep' metaphor.

Perhaps thrillobyte (Post 141) is correct when he says, "This demonstrates nothing more than that the Bible is a completely unreliable text to base one's beliefs on and to make it the central guide for directing their lives." But, as far as I know, the Christian Holy Book is the best we have for the answers to questions such as this one. Perhaps thrillobyte can come up with a better explanation as to what happens at death unless it's simply 'lights out' ...end of story.
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Old 11-28-2023, 05:58 PM
 
63,499 posts, read 39,789,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
Gurdjieff talked about all those "sleep" references, and that they weren't literally about "sleep". The word is a simple and affective way to reference man's lack of awareness in daily life. And it goes way beyond just religion. We tend to miss the majority of what is going on within us and around us. Just think of the small example of all the outer signals we give off, that we miss, that others can pick up on. And inversely, we tend to be so stuck on ourselves and preoccupied with our thoughts and issues that we miss much from others, and remain ignorant of others.

So, it's a big clumsy mess of humanity existing and going through life "asleep". Any worthwhile philosophy and religion should help us: 1) be aware of that, and 2) improve upon that, and transcend the weaknesses and flaws of humanity.
As a practical matter, our experience of "sleep" removes all awareness of time so the word "immediately" is moot. Any subsequent awareness after death would seem immediate no matter how much time elapses.
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Old 11-29-2023, 10:27 AM
 
Location: So Cal/AZ
947 posts, read 765,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
As a practical matter, our experience of "sleep" removes all awareness of time so the word "immediately" is moot. Any subsequent awareness after death would seem immediate no matter how much time elapses.

30:4.12 (341.2) The passing of time is of no moment to sleeping mortals; they are wholly unconscious and oblivious to the length of their rest. On reassembly of personality at the end of an age, those who have slept five thousand years will react no differently than those who have rested five days. Aside from this time delay these survivors pass on through the ascension regime identically with those who avoid the longer or shorter sleep of death.
https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book...grand-universe

Last edited by RockyRoadg; 11-29-2023 at 11:34 AM..
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Old 11-29-2023, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Middle America
10,972 posts, read 7,042,022 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomulusXXV View Post
Perhaps thrillobyte (Post 141) is correct when he says, "This demonstrates nothing more than that the Bible is a completely unreliable text to base one's beliefs on
Or, too many are missing the point, and taking the writings literally, instead of the actual metaphoric and allegoric intentions. Much of the older writings around the world took that form, but people now are trying to use modern and literal assumptions, which won't fit or work. That's not a justification or defense of the Bible; just pointing out that modern people typically don't match their approach to the intended approach of the older writings.
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Old 11-29-2023, 10:52 AM
 
63,499 posts, read 39,789,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
Or, too many are missing the point, and taking the writings literally, instead of the actual metaphoric and allegoric intentions. Much of the older writings around the world took that form, but people now are trying to use modern and literal assumptions, which won't fit or work. That's not a justification or defense of the Bible; just pointing out that modern people typically don't match their approach to the intended approach of the older writings.
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