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Old 11-25-2023, 11:13 AM
 
Location: UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Darby View Post
...

Lenora Piper demonstrated her mediumistic abilities over and over under intense professional scrutiny that continued for decades. Some of her work is likewise jaw-dropping. Weirdly, or maybe not, some of her work was complete nonsense - "Sir Walter Raleigh" talked of monkeys living on the sun. Moreover, in some efforts to expose her, she produced detailed histories of "deceased" persons who were in fact fictional.
...

The problem is that we have an idea of how the world works which may not be correct. If there are other dimensions, then there may well be monkeys living on the sun because the sun in another dimension may not be the hot place we know it to be. I realise this is a fairly radical idea but we just dont know how our reality hangs together. If time is not linear then being 'outside' of time when a medium is receiving impressions could pick up on another reality or even a different time line. Probably too waaay out for most people.
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Old 11-26-2023, 12:17 AM
 
Location: Germany
16,590 posts, read 4,878,098 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
The problem is that we have an idea of how the world works which may not be correct. If there are other dimensions, then there may well be monkeys living on the sun because the sun in another dimension may not be the hot place we know it to be. I realise this is a fairly radical idea but we just dont know how our reality hangs together. If time is not linear then being 'outside' of time when a medium is receiving impressions could pick up on another reality or even a different time line. Probably too waaay out for most people.
Another problem is when you look at the study of Lenora Piper, she did not demonstrate her mediumistic abilities over and over. That she did was just another false O'Darby claim.
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Old 11-26-2023, 05:43 PM
 
18,191 posts, read 16,774,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trusso11783 View Post
I am Catholic. Not super religious but go to church weekly and follow most of it. Quick question. I thought the Bible states that after death, we sleep until Jesus returns and then all of the dead will rise and go to heaven (or hell). Today, I was at a funeral mass. The priest said that the deceased was met by angels and is now in heaven. That is not what I thought the Bible says. Do they say it to comfort the family? Did the priest get it wrong? Is there another contradictory statement that says what the priest said?

You'll hear ten thousand different stories of what happens after a person dies. Your belief is as good as anyone's. Nobody knows so don't believe any of them.
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Old 11-26-2023, 05:45 PM
 
181 posts, read 60,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trusso11783 View Post
I am Catholic. Not super religious but go to church weekly and follow most of it. Quick question. I thought the Bible states that after death, we sleep until Jesus returns and then all of the dead will rise and go to heaven (or hell). Today, I was at a funeral mass. The priest said that the deceased was met by angels and is now in heaven. That is not what I thought the Bible says. Do they say it to comfort the family? Did the priest get it wrong? Is there another contradictory statement that says what the priest said?
“Today you will be with me in paradise” (Luke 23:43)

Jesus said this to the thief on the cross hanging beside him ^^^


The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. Luke 16:22


These people are Saints, they are certainly not asleep or in any state of soul sleep.Nor is there a such thing as a temporary dwelling called Purgatory. Jesus said, "It is finished" he died for former, future and current sins for those who belong to him. Any other teaching is heresy and not of Christianity nor the bible.

if we are Christian, follow the bible only, believe it is 100% truth, believe it in it's entirety, believe i tis infallible, repent and accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior who shed his blood for our sins, we will be in heaven to be with our Creator and Heavenly father upon our immediate death. Sure, the rapture will happen so some will not die a fleshly death but their bodies will just morph into heavenly bodies at that time but most will just die, then immediately be with Lord Jesus and the other saints such as Abraham and the thief on the cross.
.

Last edited by TruckeeTami; 11-26-2023 at 06:09 PM..
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Old 11-26-2023, 06:13 PM
 
181 posts, read 60,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CCCyou View Post
NOWHERE in the bible does it state to 'confess your sins ONLY to God'.

In fact, at James 5:16, we are shown "Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another"

and

John 20:23 "If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; "
If this is true, why do the Catholics have their members ONLY confess to the priest? Just curious. If you are Catholic or know the answer, otherwise disregard this question
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Old 11-26-2023, 06:24 PM
 
Location: San Diego CA
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We vanish. Crossing the barrier between life and death into non existence. Was it all real or unreal. Or just a dream in the universal mind.
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Old 11-26-2023, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Middle America
10,955 posts, read 7,011,519 times
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I say neither sleep, nor heaven.

Research into experiences of TDE's (temporary death experiences, not the misnomer "near death") shows a person's essence / soul merges back with the universe and the great common ground of humanity. It appears to be a reconnecting with who we were before coming to Earth most recently. And we likely begin the work on the next journey and return back on Earth.

Last edited by Thoreau424; 11-26-2023 at 07:07 PM..
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Old 11-26-2023, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Townsville
6,631 posts, read 2,822,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trusso11783
I am Catholic. Not super religious but go to church weekly and follow most of it. Quick question. I thought the Bible states that after death, we sleep until Jesus returns and then all of the dead will rise and go to heaven (or hell). Today, I was at a funeral mass. The priest said that the deceased was met by angels and is now in heaven. That is not what I thought the Bible says. Do they say it to comfort the family? Did the priest get it wrong? Is there another contradictory statement that says what the priest said?
The FACTS are that no one knows what happens to a person when they die other than that they are buried or cremated. And so 'fiction' is resorted to (probably to comfort the family) in such cases as the one you site. However, it we're to use the Bible and to quote what IT has to say about the state of the dead, you would be correct. The Bible DOES state in more than 50 places that the dead 'sleep' until the resurrection at Jesus' future return. These more than 50 scriptures are completely ignored by the below poster who rather believes the 'verbal fiction' likely heard and absorbed from the pulpit of most of mainstream Christian churches. This poster even refers to those who use those more than 50 scriptures to respond to the OP's question as 'heretics'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TruckeeTami View Post
“Today you will be with me in paradise” (Luke 23:43)

Jesus said this to the thief on the cross hanging beside him ^^^

“The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. Luke 16:22
A couple of random and misinterpreted pieces of scripture do not cancel out or contradict THE MORE THAN 50 REFERENCES IN THE BIBLE THAT 'THE DEAD' SLEEP UNTIL THE RESURRECTION!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TruckeeTami View Post
These people are Saints, they are certainly not asleep or in any state of soul sleep.
Have you actually read your Bible? Obviously not thoroughly enough on THIS particular topic. While no one knows what happens to the dead after they die (and 'no one' includes both me AND you) we CAN quote what the Bible has to say about it and then leave it there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TruckeeTami View Post
Nor is there a such thing as a temporary dwelling called Purgatory. Jesus said, "It is finished" he died for former, future and current sins for those who belong to him. Any other teaching is heresy and not of Christianity nor the bible.
Purgatory? Yes, Catholic propaganda, not biblical. Again, I'm just going by what the Bible has to say about the state of the dead. I can't give a personal opinion on what I don't know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TruckeeTami View Post
if we are Christian, follow the bible only, believe it is 100% truth, believe it in it's entirety, believe i tis infallible, repent and accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior who shed his blood for our sins, we will be in heaven to be with our Creator and Heavenly father upon our immediate death.


NOT according to the Bible which you claim to follow. How could you have missed those 50-odd references to the dead 'sleeping' until the resurrection? And then you have the audacity to refer to those WHO HAVE read those 50-odd scriptures and believe them as 'heretics'! Who are you do this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TruckeeTami View Post
Sure, the rapture will happen so some will not die a fleshly death but their bodies will just morph into heavenly bodies at that time but most will just die, then immediately be with Lord Jesus and the other saints such as Abraham and the thief on the cross.
The first part ^ is not this fictitious 'rapture' that someone invented when they apparently had nothing better to do. HOWEVER, Paul DOES refer to what occurs for both the living and the dead at Jesus' return in I Thessalonians 4:16 as well as other similar references. Paul says that the dead in Christ - THOSE WHO ARE 'SLEEPING' - will rise FIRST to meet with the Lord in the air, followed by those 'faithful' ones that are alive who will then, AND ONLY THEN, be given immortality. So, 'immortality' is given to both the dead and the living at THE SAME TIME! THAT is according to the Bible that you claim to believe is the 100% truth.
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Old 11-26-2023, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Townsville
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Below is a copy and paste of the 54 Bible texts that refer to 'death' as 'sleep'. One will see that this is not the evil belief of 'heretics', an accusation aimed by some professed Christians in their biblical ignorance toward those who simply read scripture and perhaps believe what they read as being 100% truth. SO, what do the naysayers of 'death=sleep' have to say about the following scriptures? This IS a scriptural question asked by the OP and so personal opinions are of no value.

Here are the scriptures that answer the OP's question:


Deuteronomy 31:16: “The Lord said to Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers.”

II Samuel 7:12: “When thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers.""

I Kings 1:21: “When my lord the king shall sleep with his fathers.”

I Kings 2:10: “David slept with his fathers.”

I Kings 11:21: “David slept with his fathers.”

I Kings 11:43: “Solomon slept with his fathers.”

I Kings 14:20: “Jeroboam...slept with his fathers.”

I Kings 14:31: “Rehoboam slept with his fathers.”

I Kings 15:8: “Abijam slept with his fathers.”

I Kings 15:24: “Asa slept with his fathers.”

I Kings 16:6: “Baasha slept with his fathers.”

I Kings 16:28: “Omri slept with his fathers.”

I Kings 22:40: “Ahab slept with his fathers.”

I Kings 22:50: “Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers.”

II Kings 8:24: “Joram slept with his fathers”

II Kings 10:35: “Jehu slept with his fathers”

II Kings 13:9: “Jehoahaz slept with his fathers”

II Kings 13:13: “Joash slept with his fathers”

II Kings 14:16: “Jehoash slept with his fathers”

II Kings 14:22: “The king slept with his fathers”

II Kings 14:29: “Jeroboam slept with his fathers”

II Kings 15:7: “Azariah slept with his fathers”

II Kings 15:22: “Menahem slept with his fathers”

II Kings 15:38: “Jotham slept with his fathers”

II Kings 16:20: “Ahaz slept with his fathers”

II Kings 20:21: “Hezekiah slept with his fathers”

II Kings 21: 18: “Manasseh slept with his fathers”

II Kings 24:6: “Jehoiakim slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 9:31: “Solomon slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 12:16: “Rehoaboam slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 14:1: “Abijah slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 16:13: “Asa slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 21:1: “Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 26:2: “The king slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 26:23: “Uzziah slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 27:9: “Jotham slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 28:27: “Ahaz slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 32:33: “Hezekiah slept with his fathers”

II Chron. 33:20: “Manasseh slept with his fathers”

Whether a good king or a bad king, none of these kings are in heaven (or in a burning place); all lie asleep in their graves awaiting the resurrection of the dead.

In Job, believed to be the oldest book in the Bible, death is again referred to as sleep:

Job 7:21: “Now shall I sleep in the dust”

Job 14:12: “They shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep”

In the Psalms, death is a sleep:

Psalm 13:3: “Lest I sleep the sleep of death”

Psalm 90:5: “Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep”

Daniel promises a resurrection of the sleeping dead:

Daniel 12:2: “Many of they that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake”

Jesus described death as “sleep”:

Matthew 9:24: “The maid is not dead but sleepeth.”

Mark 5:39: “The damsel is not dead but sleepeth”

Luke 8:52: “She is not dead but sleepeth”

John 11:11: “Our friend Lazarus sleepeth”

At Jesus’ crucifixion:

Matthew 27:52: “Many bodies of the saints which slept arose”

Luke reiterates I Kings:

Acts 13:36: “David...fell asleep, and was laid unto his fathers”

Paul describes death as sleep:

I Cor. 15:20: “Christ is risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that sleep”

I Cor. 15:51: “We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed”

I Thess 4:13: “I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope”

I Thess. 4:14: “If we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus”
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Old 11-27-2023, 09:20 AM
 
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yes
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