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Old 06-10-2017, 12:57 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
7,312 posts, read 6,017,402 times
Reputation: 4351

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
White supremacists have been the worst part of the country since it was created, it's worth talking about stamping it out.
Who are the white supremacists and how do you propose to stamp them out?
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Old 06-10-2017, 01:03 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
7,312 posts, read 6,017,402 times
Reputation: 4351
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I agree wholeheartedly. I am in agreement that issues like violent crime should be addressed too. New Orleans and St. Louis have alot of problems. However, they represent two totally different issues that have little to do with each other. Since we are on the subject of Confederate monuments, I only suspect that violent crime is brought up to deflect from this issue. Stuff like White supremacy needs to be stamped out. Those Confederates are a glaring symbol of it.
Violent crime and crime in general is brought up because it is ruining the City of St. Louis and the mayor is paying attention to old monuments.

Car break-ins are so bad they're part of St. Louis culture, like baseball and barges | Law and order | stltoday.com
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Old 06-10-2017, 01:47 PM
 
58,367 posts, read 50,972,463 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUTGR View Post
Violent crime and crime in general is brought up because it is ruining the City of St. Louis and the mayor is paying attention to old monuments.

Car break-ins are so bad they're part of St. Louis culture, like baseball and barges | Law and order | stltoday.com
If you want to talk about those issues, separate thread for a separate time. The two issues have nothing to do with each other.
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Old 06-10-2017, 02:17 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
694 posts, read 1,202,815 times
Reputation: 935
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
If you want to talk about those issues, separate thread for a separate time. The two issues have nothing to do with each other.
Possibly not in St Louis but in the New Orleans statue controversy, which I believe you are debating on another thread, a group of black pastors accused their mayor of using the statue tear down as a political ploy to appease the black community and divert attention from more important issues - like crime.

Black ministers' position on Confederate monuments, Gusman, exposes complex racial politics | NOLA.com

Quote - "The rub? The ministers don't want Landrieu to be more aggressive in his effort to remove controversial monuments, as some black residents and ministers have urged. Instead, Watson and the others have called Landrieu's removal efforts unnecessary and racially divisive "smokescreen" aimed at drawing attention away from the mayor's supposed failures in other arenas, notably crime prevention."

So while I agree with you the issues are not relevant to one another, both sides play that card.
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Old 06-10-2017, 02:28 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
7,312 posts, read 6,017,402 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
If you want to talk about those issues, separate thread for a separate time. The two issues have nothing to do with each other.
No thanks.
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Old 06-10-2017, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Behind You!
1,954 posts, read 3,874,723 times
Reputation: 2732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist View Post
The American ISIS is sanitizing history.
Are they? Nobody's taking that stuff out of the history books. It's our history and should always be taught and never forgotten. But having monuments of people who committed the highest form of treason against our country and illegally seceded and fought a war against their own countrymen shouldn't have monuments, shouldn't have schools named after them, and their flag sure as hell shouldn't fly. Please don't say that the worst 4 yrs of our country's existence is somehow "heritage".

I think the majority of the country would love to form a line and jackhammer CA into the pacific and wave to them as they floated away. But if they started laying the razorwire, illegally seceded and a militarized force shot our troops as they tried to regain the state, would they have statues after the fact? Would the future generations of those involved be the sons and daughters of hero's, or domestic terrorists? You honestly tell me it wouldn't be the latter.
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Old 06-10-2017, 03:32 PM
 
3,731 posts, read 2,709,299 times
Reputation: 2968
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean-Francois View Post
I reiterate, it's not my place to argue one way or the other, but providing the statues are just seen as marking history, not applauding slavery, I'd like to see them whenever I'm in the U.S.
It's not obvious to a casual observer, but most Confederate memorials were not erected just after the war. Many of them came to be as part of the Lost Cause white supremacist movement in the later 19th century, which was aimed at justifying racist Jim Crow laws. This is also when you see the modern Confederate battle flag come into prominence, which was previously somewhat obscure, but was popularized by the KKK.
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Old 06-10-2017, 05:28 PM
 
58,367 posts, read 50,972,463 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUTGR View Post
No thanks.
Well, this thread is not the time to bring up crime. There are other threads for this. This is not one of them. St. Louis' crime issues have nothing to do with a Confederate issues. Both are to be discussed separately because neither two are related to each other. You don't discuss baseball in a soccer thread.
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Old 06-10-2017, 08:59 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
7,312 posts, read 6,017,402 times
Reputation: 4351
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Well, this thread is not the time to bring up crime. There are other threads for this. This is not one of them. St. Louis' crime issues have nothing to do with a Confederate issues. Both are to be discussed separately because neither two are related to each other. You don't discuss baseball in a soccer thread.
Sorry, you discuss priorities of a city with limited funds. You discuss political decisions. If you rank the problems in this city, the memorial is way down the list, but our new mayor made it job one.

We will talk about this and the context is correct. Sorry if you disagree, but you don't live here. I live in the metropolitan area and frequent the city for work. I have two siblings who live in the City. I will discuss these issues in the context I wish.
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Old 06-10-2017, 09:42 PM
 
1,400 posts, read 697,530 times
Reputation: 812
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
White supremacists have been the worst part of the country since it was created, it's worth talking about stamping it out.
So the Confederacy must be stamped out, but the democratic party should remain. Got it.

http://blackhistory.harpweek.com/7Il...iteMansGov.htm

Quote:
This Thomas Nast cartoon appeared during the presidential election campaign of 1868. The contest pitted Nast’s hero, General Ulysses S. Grant, the Republican candidate, against former New York Governor Horatio Seymour, the Democratic nominee. This cartoon presents one of Nast’s continual themes: that the Democratic party suppresses the rights and threatens the safety of black Americans. The caption lets the viewer know that he is specifically criticizing the Democratic party’s opposition to Reconstruction legislation. The three standing figures represent what the cartoonist considers to be the three wings of the Democratic party. Nast incorporates into the picture several symbols and stereotypes that he uses frequently.
Quote:
The middle figure is Nathan Bedford Forrest, who represents the influence of former Confederates in the post-war Democratic party. He wears his Confederate uniform, with a lash—symbolizing slavery—in his back pocket, and stands ready to plunge a knife—symbolizing the Confederate war effort, "The Lost Cause"—into his black victim. On Forrest’s coat is a medal honoring his command at Fort Pillow—symbolizing Confederate atrocities against black soldiers. In the background, Nast includes a burning freedmen’s school, representing the violence resistance of many white Southerners to the freedom and advancement of blacks in society. Forrest was one of the organizers of the Ku Klux Klan.
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