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One thing about this thread, is that with only a few exceptions, it has only focused on morality and values, and not so much on economic philosophy.
SF is more of a consumerist and ''gotta get ahead'' type of place than Montreal is. In Montreal and in Quebec there is a mentality that economic growth and financial gain are not goals for which you should be selling your soul. Or at least, there are some things that are not negotiable, and if there is an economic price to pay for that, so be it.
In the here and now in 2014 not 40 years ago Montreal is a very liberal place - when is the last time the police in Montreal have raided a bathhouse? Have you seen how many bathouses and gay strip clubs there are in Montreal now - a lot trust me lol... S.F seemed tame in comparison on my visit. Nothing in S.F compared to Oasis or Taboo or Campus... Not that I have familiarity with these things - I swear I just walked by them lol
Even the straight scene is raunchy in Montreal and there are venues (as a gay male i'm certainly not familiar with ha) but I have friends who are straight and they are more than aware of these straight raunchy venues in Montreal.. I can't even name one here the name is so raunchy - lets just say its on St Catherine street E between rue St Elisabeth and Rue Sanguinet and we'll leave it at that .
So when it comes to raunchiness and live and let live mentality and behaviour (Montreal the drinking age is 19 what is it in S.F btw?) - Montreal is tough to beat in N.A. There is nothing about Montreal that feels less liberal than S.F when it comes to the general population...
Even in terms of politics in recent times - the governments of California and Quebec ebb and flow between liberal and more conservative - but the heart and soul of either Montreal or S.F is liberal.. My feeling however Is that Montrealers with the French cultural influences skew more liberal.
*Sigh*. That's what's so hard to take this stuff serious.
This is pretty much EVERYwhere these days. It doesn't matter if it's Minneapolis or Ft. Lauderdale, you'll see straights, you'll see raunchy. You'll see whatever. It's not shocking. It's been talked about in 'Rock-n-Roll since the days of Janes Addiction, Red Hot Chili Peppers, etc. Twenty-five years ago, alternative music had their superstars talking about gay experiences. If Montreal has this in 2014, it's really not shocking, it's just the same thing that is happening everywhere. Most bookstores have had gay sections for 25+ years as well.
You'll have to REALLY shock me to convince me that Montreal is way more liberal. Tell me that Montreal bans straights, or that straight marriages are illegal. Otherwise, if its just nudity, straights go into gay bars too, and gays are there....it's really no different than any other city anywhere else. There are enormous gay scenes pretty much everywhere even in the Deep South like Atlanta has enormous gay scenes with Gay Pride parades, and *gasp* naked people, straight people who go into gay bars, and gays. It's not a unique thing in Montreal, by any means. That's been every large city in North America for the last 30 years.
I totally agree. The places I have seen the worst and most ridiculous bar fights have typically been places with early last calls.
There was an article I read a few months ago that compared alcohol related assaults and arrests in London before and after they changed the serving hours to 24/7. There has been a drop and many bar owners and the police department agree that the change in hours has contributed to that drop.
I am not sure there is much hope of changing that here (most of Canada and the US) but geez I wish they would.
*Sigh*. That's what's so hard to take this stuff serious.
This is pretty much EVERYwhere these days. It doesn't matter if it's Minneapolis or Ft. Lauderdale, you'll see straights, you'll see raunchy. You'll see whatever. It's not shocking. It's been talked about in 'Rock-n-Roll since the days of Janes Addiction, Red Hot Chili Peppers, etc. Twenty-five years ago, alternative music had their superstars talking about gay experiences. If Montreal has this in 2014, it's really not shocking, it's just the same thing that is happening everywhere. Most bookstores have had gay sections for 25+ years as well.
You'll have to REALLY shock me to convince me that Montreal is liberal and everywhere else isn't. Tell me that Montreal bans straights, or that straight marriages are illegal. Otherwise, if its just nudity, straights go into gay bars too, and gays are there....it's really no different than any other city anywhere else.
I'm not trying to convince you that Montreal is liberal and everywhere else isn't.. It is my belief that Montreal is more liberal than S.F based on my experiences in both in terms of the entertainment options and my interaction with locals... I'm not saying S.F isn't liberal... at all!
Comparing Minneapolis' raunchiness to Montreal's is absurd imo I think those familiar with the raunchiness of Montreal would probably widely agree with me.. mind you I haven't been to Minns so my assumption that Montreal is more liberal than Minns may be WAY way off base (I just don't think so )... have you been to Montreal btw?
Haha too late you voted and said it and I agree - don't worry, I still love S.F too...
There is an interesting duality between the liberal attitudes and behaviours of a general population and the political regulation you speak to (and I agree with) as we discussed in the Toronto threads. It is like the Politicians are out of step with the actual people... well, I guess this isn't anything new.. maybe we need to be a bit more vocal with our politicians about what we want and expect.. You're right though, we seem to have this need to be ashamed to admit publicly about what we really want, like it is impolite or politically incorrect to do so.. Kind of like cognitive dissonance. It is starting to annoy me actually lol.
I love them both man, both cities are amongst my favorites!
Nothing to really add to your second paragraph as I agree 100%. Its totally annoying
There was a funny article in our local media not that long ago. The reporter pored over the enforcement of drinking in public laws (essentially the same in all provinces in Canada - at least on paper) on federal National Capital Commission properties in Ottawa, Ontario and Gatineau, Quebec. The Commission owns properties, mostly parks, in both provinces which are only separated by a river. Since it is federal property, it is patrolled by the RCMP (the Mounties) on both sides of the border.
Anyway, the reporter found that on the Ontario side in Ottawa, the Mounties were way more likely to fine people for drinking in parks and on NCC property. Whereas in Gatineau on the Quebec side, they almost always give out warnings instead of fines. Same laws, same police force, different provinces.
I would have loved to read that article and I can say from personal experience that is the case.
As I have mentioned before my family and I spend a decent amount in Montreal and one of the things we always do when the weather is nice is walk through Jean Talon Market, pick up some Charcuterie, Cheese and Bread and go picnic down the street at Parc Jarry with a bottle of wine. No one has ever batted an eye to this as there are always quite a few others doing the same. That would no go over well in quite a few other places.
*Sigh*. That's what's so hard to take this stuff serious.
This is pretty much EVERYwhere these days. It doesn't matter if it's Minneapolis or Ft. Lauderdale, you'll see straights, you'll see raunchy. You'll see whatever. It's not shocking. It's been talked about in 'Rock-n-Roll since the days of Janes Addiction, Red Hot Chili Peppers, etc. Twenty-five years ago, alternative music had their superstars talking about gay experiences. If Montreal has this in 2014, it's really not shocking, it's just the same thing that is happening everywhere. Most bookstores have had gay sections for 25+ years as well.
You'll have to REALLY shock me to convince me that Montreal is way more liberal. Tell me that Montreal bans straights, or that straight marriages are illegal. Otherwise, if its just nudity, straights go into gay bars too, and gays are there....it's really no different than any other city anywhere else. There are enormous gay scenes pretty much everywhere even in the Deep South like Atlanta has enormous gay scenes with Gay Pride parades, and *gasp* naked people, straight people who go into gay bars, and gays. It's not a unique thing in Montreal, by any means. That's been every large city in North America for the last 30 years.
In Montreal you can sometimes see frontal nudity on Saturday morning cartoons on mainstream TV channels.
In SF because you are part of the US when they show Titanic on a regular TV channel they even blur out the circles with dots in the middle that are supposed to represent Kate Winslet's boobies on the crude sketch drawn by Leonardo di Caprio.
I'm not trying to convince you that Montreal is liberal and everywhere else isn't.. It is my belief that Montreal is more liberal than S.F... Its not saying S.F isn't liberal.. Comparing Minneapolis' raunchiness to Montreal's is absurd imo I think those familiar with the raunchiness of Montreal would probably widely agree with me.. mind you I haven't been to Minns so my assumption that Montreal is more liberal than Minns may be WAY way off base (I just don't think so )... have you been to Montreal btw?
Personally, I think these things are hard to quantify. Let's just say I don't see ANY conservatism whatsoever in San Francisco. Zero, zilch, none, nada, nowhere, no how. It doesn't exist.
So when I hear someone saying that another city is 'more' liberal than SF, than it's hard for me to understand how a place can be MORE liberal. How can you be further than then the extreme? You could be at the extreme, you could be near the extreme, but you can't out-extreme the extreme.
It's like someone saying that 'Joe' was more nude than 'John'. Well, how is Joe more nude than John? Does John have a birthmark that covers up an iota of skin that makes him less nude? It doesn't compute.
In Montreal you can sometimes see frontal nudity on Saturday morning cartoons on mainstream TV channels.
In SF because you are part of the US when they show Titanic on a regular TV channel they even blur out the circles with dots in the middle that are supposed to represent Kate Winslet's boobies on the crude sketch drawn by Leonardo di Caprio.
LOL hilarious (maybe its the wine i'm drinking but that is funny!) - I had no clue they do that... What a terrible injustice to the artist - Leonardo...
In Montreal you can sometimes see frontal nudity on Saturday morning cartoons on mainstream TV channels.
In SF because you are part of the US when they show Titanic on a regular TV channel they even blur out the circles with dots in the middle that are supposed to represent Kate Winslet's boobies on the crude sketch drawn by Leonardo di Caprio.
I definitely hear what you are saying, but that doesn't make Montreal MORE LIBERAL than San Francisco.
That just means that Washington DC censors nudity on the American airwaves more than the province of Quebec does. But it doesn't mean that the people in the city of San Francisco are less liberal, because of it.
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