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So you studied Quebec in a California college to the point of becoming an expert on its language policies, but somehow you managed to avoid hearing about "manifest destiny"?
Yes, his assertion in itself is an impossibility. It is intellectually impossible to study language laws in Canada and miss the whole part about English hegemony. It would be like studying the civil rights movement in America but missing the part where the whites were dominant; it's basically impossible to do.
I work fairly closely with the media (across the country) and I can tell you that English-language mainstream media in Canada does not show nudity. Not in daytime programming, not in the news, and not in prime time either.
As I said in the other thread when we discussed this, most of the evening lineup on CTV or Global or the other private networks is simulcast from American networks anyway. Hollywood doesn't make special "nudie plus" versions of Big Bang Theory just for Canada...
Well we will have to disagree. We are not talking about the evening line up, but local news and local news does show nudity.
Canadian films shown on local TV that have nudity also keep in the nudity. You keep focusing on American programming when I'm talking about Canadian programming and not American feeds.
Vancouverites were well aware when a movie shown on local TV was edited since it was a US feed.
I do understand you are coming from a Quebec viewpoint where there is much more " local " programming and therefore more of a chance of nudity on TV.
I find threads like these quite interesting in that people always seem really eager to point out how liberal they are. If I did a thread on conservatism, would people argue about who has the earliest bar closing times and the most dry counties?
- Our women are more buttoned-up on TV than yours!
- No they aren't!
- Well look at this, there isn't even an ankle showing!
To be quite honest, I don't necessarily think that all of this "liberal" stuff is always a good thing.
When you have young kids in Quebec you sometimes have some explaining to do, or have to act fast like when something as normally innocuous as a TV Guide-type magazine lying around your pediatrician's office has a feature with graphic illustrations of how to perform fellatio. Or when one of the most popular TV shows that millions of families watch on Mondays at 7 pm, all of a sudden has an entire episode on anal sex... Les Parent - Les parents open - YouTube (not the episode I linked to)
I find threads like these quite interesting in that people always seem really eager to point out how liberal they are. If I did a thread on conservatism, would people argue about who has the earliest bar closing times and the most dry counties?
- Our women are more buttoned-up on TV than yours!
- No they aren't!
- Well look at this, there isn't even an ankle showing!
To be quite honest, I don't necessarily think that all of this "liberal" stuff is always a good thing.
When you have young kids in Quebec you sometimes have some explaining to do, or have to act fast like when something as normally innocuous as a TV Guide-type magazine lying around your pediatrician's office has a feature with graphic illustrations of how to perform fellatio. Or when one of the most popular TV shows that millions of families watch on Mondays at 7 pm, all of a sudden has an entire episode on anal sex... Les Parent - Les parents open - YouTube (not the episode I linked to)
Yeah man, I am sure many of us parents could do without having to explain alot of this stuff at such an early age! The other extreme is bad as well, because then they grow up naive and thinking sex is this terrible thing. But that is a topic for another thread.
I also find it interesting how much peoples definition of "liberal" is and is there really a true Liberal utopia on this planet? As we discussed on this thread about alcohol laws, you can see that even the most liberal of places still have a strong armed big brother streak that goes against true liberal values.
I can take my home country of Jamaica as an example. Most Canadians and Americans would be shocked at how we all dance with each other during "bashment" (party) time. Just randomly dancing with strangers in a manner that simulates sex with your clothes on right in front of your significant other is too much for most. Then also seeing people hopping into a car with a bottle of liquor or beer and driving while the police drive by and wave hello. Plus there are tons of other examples. On the flip side the West Indies are about a century behind the US and Canada when it comes to gay rights, so that knocks down the Liberalism a notch.
So when people yell from the rooftops that they are more Liberal than anyone else, but then regulate the hell out of other vices (drugs, sex, alcohol especially) It really doesn't come across as genuine.
So you studied Quebec in a California college to the point of becoming an expert on its language policies, but somehow you managed to avoid hearing about "manifest destiny"?
I never claimed to be an expert. You can't lump the continent of English speakers together as some evil hegemonic force, out to kick French people's shins, and throw their ice cream on the ground, it's extremely childish, and divisive. Out of this context I think Quebec is interesting for the way they banned English and made all other languages illegal, even if I don't think it's very tolerant, or conducive to diversity. I still don't think Montreal is more liberal than SF though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj
Honestly Zack, if you aren't aware of English's hegemony over Canada for a couple of centuries, you can't possibly be taken seriously in a discussion about Montreal. This subject is practically the base of Canada's existence as a country and political entity. It is like someone denying that French has dominated Belgium over Dutch, but on a much grander and more ignorant scale.
The French Canadians were the original Canadians who were conquered in the Seven Years War and became a British colony, similar to India or Nigeria, except the British came and settled en masse in Canada, outnumbering the original "Canadians" (Quebecois). In Nova Scotia, the entire French-speaking population was deported (becoming the Cajuns in Lousiana) and replaced with British colonists. Later on, their bid for independence was crushed by the British Empire. Outside of Quebec City and small French-speaking towns in Quebec, the Canadiens were forced to attend school in English and pressured to assimilate. If they wanted to advance socially, economically or politically, they needed to reject their language and culture and try to become English. These policies resulted in the disappearance of formerly French speaking areas across central and western Canada, the subordination of French Canadians to the defacto status of second-class citizens. The assimilation policies failed only in Quebec, where the Canadiens were too numerous to be assimilated. Montreal was the most important front line of this cultural battle. Now in an independent Canada, the Canadians, now called Quebecois have achieved democratic equality and want their nation (Quebec) to no longer be dominated by an English speaking minority, and the language laws are effectively achieving that.
If this was in Nigeria, India, Kenya, Guyana, or Malta, would you have such a negative view of those wishing to no longer be culturally dominated by their former colonial masters? Why is it so different for Quebec? This is a measure that any people on earth would take in the given situation, regardless of their political leanings in other matters. No people on earth would say "sure, let my language and culture be dominated or eradicated by another one".
My remark was really at his lumping of me and anyone else who speaks English in with some colonial oppressor, sorry bro, my family is German and Danish, I didn't do **** to oppress the stupid Quebecois. As a matter of fact, I love France, I'd go back in heartbeat, and I find Quebec pretty interesting I'd probably have an enjoyable visit. I don't know how you jumped to the conclusion that I hate the Quebec French for some reason, because I actually don't.
Yeah man, I am sure many of us parents could do without having to explain alot of this stuff at such an early age! The other extreme is bad as well, because then they grow up naive and thinking sex is this terrible thing. But that is a topic for another thread.
.
The one advantage I do have is that my kids don't speak English nearly well enough to understand the nasty lyrics of some of today's popular music. So it all goes right over their heads.
Blow my whistle baby, whistle baby, all night long...
Yes, his assertion in itself is an impossibility. It is intellectually impossible to study language laws in Canada and miss the whole part about English hegemony. It would be like studying the civil rights movement in America but missing the part where the whites were dominant; it's basically impossible to do.
From what I remember the French got pissed because the British came in and owned all the businesses, while the French were mainly rural and devoutly Roman Catholic. Then they revolted, nationalized a bunch of stuff, and made English illegal. All because they were mad they had to speak English at work? I think pragmatism would have solved their problems more than creating a closed society. Quebec doesn't seem very open and inviting to foreigners, and I'd dare say they look very intolerant of actual diversity. But tell me where I'm wrong in my assumptions?
I never claimed to be an expert. You can't lump the continent of English speakers together as some evil hegemonic force, out to kick French people's shins, and throw their ice cream on the ground, it's extremely childish, and divisive. Out of this context I think Quebec is interesting for the way they banned English and made all other languages illegal, even if I don't think it's very tolerant, or conducive to diversity. I still don't think Montreal is more liberal than SF though.
My remark was really at his lumping of me and anyone else who speaks English in with some colonial oppressor, sorry bro, my family is German and Danish, I didn't do **** to oppress the stupid Quebecois. As a matter of fact, I love France, I'd go back in heartbeat, and I find Quebec pretty interesting I'd probably have an enjoyable visit. I don't know how you jumped to the conclusion that I hate the Quebec French for some reason, because I actually don't.
My remark was really at his lumping of me and anyone else who speaks English in with some colonial oppressor, sorry bro, my family is German and Danish, I didn't do **** to oppress the stupid Quebecois. As a matter of fact, I love France, I'd go back in heartbeat, and I find Quebec pretty interesting I'd probably have an enjoyable visit. I don't know how you jumped to the conclusion that I hate the Quebec French for some reason, because I actually don't.
Oh, I think no one is arguing that you hate Quebec. Most of the people are just saying that you are pretty clueless about it. Highschool science project aside.
From what I remember the French got pissed because the British came in and owned all the businesses, while the French were mainly rural and devoutly Roman Catholic. Then they revolted, nationalized a bunch of stuff, and made English illegal. All because they were mad they had to speak English at work? I think pragmatism would have solved their problems more than creating a closed society. Quebec doesn't seem very open and inviting to foreigners, and I'd dare say they look very intolerant of actual diversity. But tell me where I'm wrong in my assumptions?
And yet...
Relative to population, Quebec takes in more immigrants that the good old United States of America.
In an average year, Quebec takes in more immigrants in sheer numbers than most US states with a comparable or slightly higher population (VA, PA, OH, MI, IL, GA, NC). It also takes in as many immigrants as New York, which has double Quebec's population (just under 50,000 for each).
Still relative to population, Quebec takes in more immigrants than the immigrant boom states of CA, FL and TX.
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