U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 04-06-2012, 09:02 AM
 
3,682 posts, read 4,939,516 times
Reputation: 2422

Advertisements

I am an atheist and i'm not 'anti gay' per se........but....

I know gay people and i really don't have any issues with them. (except if they french kiss in public....then, i'm just grossed out quite honestly.....but i would simply look the other day......similar to a situation where two completely unattractive straight couple were to french kiss in public)

I do however believe that being gay is a genetic defect.....something off in the make up of their genes which 1. isn't a fault of their own and 2. that's simply (in my opinion) a defect similar to thousands and thousands of other defects our genes could have, that would result in birth defects, etc.)

NOTE: the above is not based on ANY scientific research i've done or any proof that i have for this. It is simply what makes sense to me when i 'try' to think about this logically. i could be wrong and i welcome evidence against my argument.

thanks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-06-2012, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Dix Hills, NY
120 posts, read 102,266 times
Reputation: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinking-man View Post
I am an atheist and i'm not 'anti gay' per se........but....

I know gay people and i really don't have any issues with them. (except if they french kiss in public....then, i'm just grossed out quite honestly.....but i would simply look the other day......similar to a situation where two completely unattractive straight couple were to french kiss in public)

I do however believe that being gay is a genetic defect.....something off in the make up of their genes which 1. isn't a fault of their own and 2. that's simply (in my opinion) a defect similar to thousands and thousands of other defects our genes could have, that would result in birth defects, etc.)

NOTE: the above is not based on ANY scientific research i've done or any proof that i have for this. It is simply what makes sense to me when i 'try' to think about this logically. i could be wrong and i welcome evidence against my argument.

thanks.
A defect which apparently appears in at least 500 other animal species...

... just sayin'...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-06-2012, 10:22 AM
 
3,682 posts, read 4,939,516 times
Reputation: 2422
Quote:
Originally Posted by NateHevens View Post
A defect which apparently appears in at least 500 other animal species...

... just sayin'...
yes. why is that hard to believe?
missing or underdeveloped limbs also appears in almost all other species...

just sayin'...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-06-2012, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Dix Hills, NY
120 posts, read 102,266 times
Reputation: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinking-man View Post
yes. why is that hard to believe?
missing or underdeveloped limbs also appears in almost all other species...

just sayin'...
Never said whether or not it's hard to believe. I'm just noting that's it not specific to humans... much like culture, and self-awareness, and altruism, and mourning for the dead, and language, and tool use, and just about everything else we once thought was human-only.

I tend to think that it provides an evolutionary advantage like, for example, natural population control. If everyone in the population reproduced, we might have ended up with 7 billion people on this planet many thousands of years ago... of course, we're heading dangerously close to over-population now, if we aren't there already, but still... but this is only one of many hypotheses.

Here's a link to a search for scholarly articles on the issue.

Also, to be fair, we human beings owe our existence to an accumulation of genetic defects in a sense, because, after all, what is a mutation if not a genetic defect? The human genome really is a large chain of genetic defects that led to the split of hominids and chimpanzees about, I think, 8 million yeas ago or something like that. Not too mention all the different species of humans that have existed throughout time (Sahelanthropus tchadensis, Orrorin tugenesis, Ardepithecus ramidus, Australopithecus anamensis, Australopithecus afarensis, Kenyanthropus platyops, Australopithecus africanus, Australopithecus garhi, Australopithecus sediba, Australopithecus aethiopithecus, Australopithecus robustus, Australopithecus boisei, Homo habilis, Homo georgicus, Homo erectus, Homo ergaster, Homo antecessor, Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, Homo floresiensis, and Homo sapiens sapiens [us]).

Last edited by NateHevens; 04-06-2012 at 10:47 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-06-2012, 10:42 AM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,972,538 times
Reputation: 8282
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-06-2012, 10:45 AM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,972,538 times
Reputation: 8282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinking-man View Post
I am an atheist and i'm not 'anti gay' per se........but....

I know gay people and i really don't have any issues with them. (except if they french kiss in public....then, i'm just grossed out quite honestly.....but i would simply look the other day......similar to a situation where two completely unattractive straight couple were to french kiss in public)

I do however believe that being gay is a genetic defect
.....something off in the make up of their genes which 1. isn't a fault of their own and 2. that's simply (in my opinion) a defect similar to thousands and thousands of other defects our genes could have, that would result in birth defects, etc.)

NOTE: the above is not based on ANY scientific research i've done or any proof that i have for this. It is simply what makes sense to me when i 'try' to think about this logically. i could be wrong and i welcome evidence against my argument.

thanks.
It is no more a "defect" than being left-handed is. It is just a difference.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-06-2012, 10:49 AM
 
3,682 posts, read 4,939,516 times
Reputation: 2422
Quote:
Originally Posted by NateHevens View Post
Never said whether or not it's hard to believe. I'm just noting that's it not specific to humans... much like culture, and self-awareness, and altruism, and mourning for the dead, and language, and tool use, and just about everything else we once thought was human-only.

I tend to think that it provides an evolutionary advantage like, for example, natural population control. If everyone in the population reproduced, we might have ended up with 7 billion people on this planet many thousands of years ago... of course, we're heading dangerously close to over-population now, if we aren't there already, but still... but this is only one of many hypotheses.

Here's a link to a search for scholarly articles on the issue.

Also, to be fair, we human beings owe our existence to an accumulation of genetic defects in a sense, because, after all, what is a mutation if not a genetic defect? The human genome really is a large chain of genetic defects that led to the split of hominids and chimpanzees about, I think, 8 million yeas ago or something like that. Not too mention all the different species of humans that have existed throughout time (Sahelanthropus tchadensis, Orrorin tugenesis, Ardepithecus ramidus, Australopithecus anamensis, Australopithecus afarensis, Kenyanthropus platyops, Australopithecus africanus, Australopithecus garhi, Australopithecus sediba, Australopithecus aethiopithecus, Australopithecus robustus, Australopithecus boisei, Homo habilis, Homo georgicus, Homo erectus, Homo ergaster, Homo antecessor, Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, Homo floresiensis, and Homo sapiens sapiens [us]).
interesting point.
thanks!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-06-2012, 10:52 AM
 
3,682 posts, read 4,939,516 times
Reputation: 2422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
It is no more a "defect" than being left-handed is. It is just a difference.
i agree in that it is a 'variation from the norm' and that in a sense, can be labeled as a "defect".
remember, i'm not talking about whether being gay is right or wrong...because that would sound as crazy as saying having underdeveloped limbs, or being born with autism is wrong.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-06-2012, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Dix Hills, NY
120 posts, read 102,266 times
Reputation: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinking-man View Post
i agree in that it is a 'variation from the norm' and that in a sense, can be labeled as a "defect".
remember, i'm not talking about whether being gay is right or wrong...because that would sound as crazy as saying having underdeveloped limbs, or being born with autism is wrong.
Or being left-handed, or being a redhead, or having green eyes, or having abnormally pale skin, or having freckles...

For emotion's sake, I'd recommend using less emotionally-charged examples to make your point. Not because you're wrong (I wouldn't know, personally... it's not a matter I'm very interested in, to be honest), but because people are likely to become defensive because even though you aren't, it looks like you're saying that homosexuality is a mental disorder like autism (might be). Again, I know that's not what you're saying, but that is how some people will take it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-06-2012, 11:51 PM
 
17,853 posts, read 12,229,787 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinking-man View Post
I am an atheist and i'm not 'anti gay' per se........but....

I know gay people and i really don't have any issues with them. (except if they french kiss in public....then, i'm just grossed out quite honestly.....but i would simply look the other day......similar to a situation where two completely unattractive straight couple were to french kiss in public)

I do however believe that being gay is a genetic defect.....something off in the make up of their genes which 1. isn't a fault of their own and 2. that's simply (in my opinion) a defect similar to thousands and thousands of other defects our genes could have, that would result in birth defects, etc.)

NOTE: the above is not based on ANY scientific research i've done or any proof that i have for this. It is simply what makes sense to me when i 'try' to think about this logically. i could be wrong and i welcome evidence against my argument.

thanks.
We know from recent brain scan studies that gay men and lesbians have differences in brain structure and functioning to heterosexual men and women. I would think that it would be a distinct advantage to have a percentage of the population able to think and perceive a little differently from the majority.


Gay brains structured like those of the opposite sex - life - 16 June 2008 - New Scientist


Brain scans have provided the most compelling evidence yet that being gay or straight is a biologically fixed trait.
The scans reveal that in gay people, key structures of the brain governing emotion, mood, anxiety and aggressiveness resemble those in straight people of the opposite sex.

The differences are likely to have been forged in the womb or in early infancy, says Ivanka Savic, who conducted the study at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden.

"This is the most robust measure so far of cerebral differences between homosexual and heterosexual subjects," she says.
Previous studies have also shown differences in brain architecture and activity between gay and straight people, but most relied on people's responses to sexuality driven cues that could have been learned, such as rating the attractiveness of male or female faces.

Brain symmetry
To get round this, Savic and her colleague, Per Lindström, chose to measure brain parameters likely to have been fixed at birth.

"That was the whole point of the study, to show parameters that differ, but which couldn't be altered by learning or cognitive processes," says Savic.
"This study demonstrates that homosexuals of both sexes show strong cross-sex shifts in brain symmetry," says Qazi Rahman, a leading researcher on sexual orientation at Queen Mary college, University of London, UK.

"The connectivity differences reported in the amygdala are striking."
"Paradoxically, it's more informative to look at things that have no direct connection with sexual orientation, and that's where this study scores," says Simon LeVay, a prominent US author who in 1991 reported finding differences(pdf) in a part of the brain called the hypothalamus between straight and gay men.

PET and MRI show differences in cerebral asymmetry and functional connectivity between homo- and heterosexual subjects
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/20...66105.abstract

__________________________________________________ ________


Several studies report that the cognitive performance of gay males is more typical of heterosexual females than heterosexual males.

Furthermore, the brain waves of gay males while performing verbal and spatial tasks are more similar to heterosexual females than males or significantly different from both."

Relationships among childhood sex-atypical behavior, spatial ability, handedness, and sexual orientation in men. Cohen KM. Arch Sex Behav. (2002)

Relationships among childhood sex-atypical be... [Arch Sex Behav. 2002] - PubMed - NCBI


Here's a couple of layman's articles:

Gay men, straight women have similar brains - Los Angeles Times

Symmetry Of Homosexual Brain Resembles That Of Opposite Sex, Swedish Study Finds

And some more brain studies:

Sexual orientation and its basis in brain structure and function

PET and MRI show differences in cerebral asymmetry and functional connectivity between homo- and heterosexual subjects

Brain response to putative pheromones in homosexual men

Sexual orientation and the size of the anterior commissure in the human brain

Brain response to putative pheromones in lesbian women

http://reberlab.psych.northwestern.e...ron_BN2007.pdf

Last edited by Ceist; 04-07-2012 at 12:02 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Atheism and Agnosticism
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top