Braves stadium/development to cost $1.1 billion (Atlanta: houses, transfer, depreciation)

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I was reading about the plan to provide walking, cycling and park upgrades along MLK from the Falcons stadium to Fulton Industrial Boulevard. This will include a pedestrian bridge over I-285.

Apparently the city of Atlanta is asking the state of Georgia to chip in $11.5 million. They want federal taxpayers to pick up the tab for another $30 million. That's nearly 70% of the entire cost of the project.

Cobb should be so lucky.

Originally Posted by arjay57

I'm all for pedestrian upgrades. However, it seems odd to applaud the COA for getting zillions in state and federal money for these things but to get bent out of shape when Cobb tries to do a little something.

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

It's because the somethings are different. One is a pedestrian bridge that serves the stadiums property. The other is a complete street that serves the neighborhoods along it as well as the stadium.

Originally Posted by arjay57

What about the pedestrian bridge over 285 that COA is asking the state to pay for?

I'm sorry, I missed the memo where the new Falcons' stadium asks for people to walk all the way from Fulton-Industrial Boulevard to the stadium.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

I'm sorry, I missed the memo where the new Falcons' stadium asks for people to walk all the way from Fulton-Industrial Boulevard to the stadium.

It's the city of Atlanta seeking the money. Note that this project just happens to start at Northside and MLK, which just happens to be where the new Falcons stadium is being built.

I'm not sure what the pedestrian bridge at MLK and 285 will be connecting, as the area is not heavily developed at this point.

Bear in mind that the COA gets zillions in state and federal money for bridges, streets, sidewalks, etc. Why pound on Cobb for seeking a little help with a pedestrian bridge in heavily developed area they are trying to make more walkable?

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by arjay57

It's the city of Atlanta seeking the money. Note that this project just happens to start at Northside and MLK, which just happens to be where the new Falcons stadium is being built.

I'm not sure what the pedestrian bridge at MLK and 285 will be connecting, as the area is not heavily developed at this point.

Bear in mind that the COA gets zillions in state and federal money for bridges, streets, sidewalks, etc. Why pound on Cobb for seeking a little help with a pedestrian bridge in heavily developed area they are trying to make more walkable?

Once again, because this bridge is being paid for by the public (Cobb County Taxpayers, State of Georgia, and/or federal money) to benefit a privately owned baseball stadium and mixed use development that is owned by the baseball team. I never saw CoA or AFRA authority asking for help to build a pedestrian bridge over the downtown connector, connecting Turner Field to the parking lots of Mechanicsville. No, they asked visitors to use the existing infrastructure and walk under the freeway.

[netdragon]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Once again, because this bridge is being paid for by the public (Cobb County Taxpayers, State of Georgia, and/or federal money) to benefit a privately owned baseball stadium and mixed use development that is owned by the baseball team. I never saw CoA or AFRA authority asking for help to build a pedestrian bridge over the downtown connector, connecting Turner Field to the parking lots of Mechanicsville. No, they asked visitors to use the existing infrastructure and walk under the freeway.

As I mentioned in another post (trying to find it) the bridge was thought of before the Braves were a consideration and is more to benefit the Galleria and apartment dwellers/homeowners North of I-285 than the Braves. It does have the added benefit of bringing hotel users and people using CCT over to the game without having to touch a road, however on non game-days it also will increase usage at the Galleria hotels, Galleria convention mall, and for those with walking shoes on: Cumberland Mall and Aker's Square.

Edit: here http://www.city-data.com/forum/40668419-post167.html and http://www.city-data.com/forum/40668519-post168.html

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by netdragon

As I mentioned in another post (trying to find it) the bridge was thought of before the Braves were a consideration and is more to benefit the Galleria and apartment dwellers/homeowners North of I-285 than the Braves. It does have the added benefit of bringing hotel users and people using CCT over to the game without having to touch a road, however on non game-days it also will increase usage at the Galleria hotels, Galleria convention mall, and for those with walking shoes on: Cumberland Mall and Aker's Square.

Edit: here http://www.city-data.com/forum/40668419-post167.html and http://www.city-data.com/forum/40668519-post168.html

Yet those pedestrians will have to cross a parking garage, which is more dangerous to pedestrians than crossing a street within a crosswalk. The proposed bridge is 1/2 mile walk thru a large surface parking lot and thru 2 buildings from the CTC. If people complain about waiting for a train on a platform in the heat, they will not walk from the apartments at Windy Ridge to Cumberland, they will drive.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by BallinInCobb

All infrastructure improvements benefit private business owners. You like to cite all of the development along the streetcar route. Who is benefitting from that streetcar line? The landowners along that route. Just about anytime there a public expenditure, someone benefits financially. Heck, there are only about 1,000 boardings a day along the streetcar route. That is only about 365,000 a year. IIRC, the Braves are figuring 7-10,000 people a game will use this bridge. That is 550,000+ people using it a year. Are the Braves the only ones benefitting from this? What about the 2+ million people per year who will go to games at the new ballpark? Don't they benefit? Don't the Braves fans as a whole benefit from having a stadium more closely located to their homes? Doesn't the entire area benefit from the added entertainment options the development will provide? People on this board like to laud the movie and TV industry that has moved in. Why have they moved in? Why did NCR and many other companies move HQs to Georgia? Why did Kia build a plant in Georgia? Nothing is free these days and this isn't as black and white as you like to make it. Singling out the Braves for getting a slice of the pie while ignoring all of these other public expenditures screams of 'Anti-Cobb butthurtitis.'

Your posting history seems to indicate "anything transit = good" and "anything Cobb = bad." That is a very simple minded approach to complex matters.

Welcome back who ever you are that was banned from CD.

[red92s]

Originally Posted by BallinInCobb

Didn't MARTA ran buses (at a loss) directly to the front door of Turner Field for decades to benefit the Braves?

Of course that benefitted the fans, but so will a bridge that links parking to the new stadium.

This isn't black and white.

Yeah, MARTA ran a shuttle to Turner . . . for passengers that paid to ride the train to/from Five Points. Regardless of where you originate or terminate your trip on MARTA, you can transfer to a bus for free. The Braves shuttle was just doing that on a larger scale, from an operating budget that receives no state funding. Trying to equate that to this bridge is a big stretch.

[red92s]

Originally Posted by BallinInCobb

Who benefitted from the bus service? The bus service ended directly at the Braves doorstep. I'm not saying it is a bad thing, I'm just saying that it came at a significant cost and ran for several decades as a benefit to the Braves and their fans. Building a bridge that will transport similar numbers of people has the same effect and utility to the Braves and their fans.

Just because one version is car centric vs. transit centric doesn't mean it doesn't provide the same benefits to the Braves and their fans.

Every taxpayer in the state wasn't footing the bill for the MARTA shuttles. If the Braves want a bridge, they can have it. They just need to pay for it, like Tim Lee promised they would be when this deal was announced, and not ask the state for another handout.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by BallinInCobb

Who benefitted from the bus service? The bus service ended directly at the Braves doorstep. I'm not saying it is a bad thing, I'm just saying that it came at a significant cost and ran for several decades as a benefit to the Braves and their fans. Building a bridge that will transport similar numbers of people has the same effect and utility to the Braves and their fans.

Just because one version is car centric vs. transit centric doesn't mean it doesn't provide the same benefits to the Braves and their fans.

Several decades? Turner Field was built in 1997.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by BallinInCobb

Heck, there are only about 1,000 boardings a day along the streetcar route. That is only about 365,000 a year. IIRC, the Braves are figuring 7-10,000 people a game will use this bridge. That is 550,000+ people using it a year.

But the streetcar cost less than 25% of the tax dollars than SunTrust Park. So the benefit per tax dollar is much greater from the streetcar.

But you won't get much argument from me on your overall message with that comment because I think we should be letting free market run transportation too. However if we are going to give out our tax dollars, people deserve a better deal than the Cobb Braves deal.