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That's great actually. So, no need to cut me down for a difference of opinion. That's all it is. I clearly didn't say you should have done anything differently, I want to make that clear. I only stated that I would.
I might have confused the two. I apologize if that's the case.
I haven't cut you down. Nor have I been rude to you.
Surely you're not just looking for agreement. You posted your personal opinions on a forum. People are likely to respond, and likely to even disagree. Hell, they are likely to argue with you in fact! As long as people remain civil and don't begin insulting each other, and as long as they adhere to the TOS, I don't see a problem. Do you?
No worries about the confusion over the MIL/Mom thing by the way.
But I haven't even shared with you the heartbreaking course of several years as my inlaws tried to stay home and live "independently" when in fact they were both FAR from independent. They didn't want any outside help, not even from family - except when it was an emergency and then family had to step in repeatedly - without the tools or knowledge or ability to help them in many ways. It was horrible and incredibly stressful and heartbreaking. I wouldn't wish that decline, or the stress of it, on my worst enemy.
You have to talk to your parents, and really listen even when it's hard, or when you don't agree with their choices. And then you will know when it's time.
I was really lucky too. Both of my parents chose their potential living arrangements and had it in writing with money set aside, but they both wound up dying suddenly at home.
I hope the quickest possible resolution for your kid's sake, assuming they are living, breathing human beings with feelings.
Good luck.
What exactly is that suppose to mean? Seriously, I'm not sure what's angering you but I'm sure my kids will be living breathing human beings with feelings.
I was really lucky too. Both of my parents chose their potential living arrangements and had it in writing with money set aside, but they both wound up dying suddenly at home.
That's a great thing. Even if it doesn't pan out it's good to have a plan. Good for them!
I haven't cut you down. Nor have I been rude to you.
Surely you're not just looking for agreement. You posted your personal opinions on a forum. People are likely to respond, and likely to even disagree. Hell, they are likely to argue with you in fact! As long as people remain civil and don't begin insulting each other, and as long as they adhere to the TOS, I don't see a problem. Do you?
No worries about the confusion over the MIL/Mom thing by the way.
But I haven't even shared with you the heartbreaking course of several years as my inlaws tried to stay home and live "independently" when in fact they were both FAR from independent. They didn't want any outside help, not even from family - except when it was an emergency and then family had to step in repeatedly - without the tools or knowledge or ability to help them in many ways. It was horrible and incredibly stressful and heartbreaking. I wouldn't wish that decline, or the stress of it, on my worst enemy.
Oh, my bad, I guess you meant slap happy in a good way.
I see you'll try and convince me that there is only one fate for the elderly and that's a group home. Got it. Then should I just get ready for my kids to put me in the home? Ok
Most of these options become obsolete when dementia sets in. Dementia - which so many elderly and their loved ones struggle with - robs a person of so many things, one of which is their independence. So when you're making plans, be sure to make plans in case you develop dementia and cannot be independent.
Often one of the worst things health wise for a person with dementia is to live in the isolation of their home. Sad but true.
You hit the nail on the head here. It's easy when you are young and still of sound mind to believe that somehow you will continue to have the same mental clarity all the way through until the end but that is not necessarily true. Your health can affect that. My mother was the toughest cookie around and always said "I will NEVER need a rest home!" but guess what, Dementia changed all of that. Slowly she lost her ability to make sound judgments and even to remain lucid. She did not go into a facility but did require full care at home. So it's good to understand that there are some things that you might not have control over no matter how much you will it to happen.
That's what I want. I would also refuse food and drink at that time. It's hard of course but last wishes and a bit of control are also important to me. It's not for everyone and I understand that.
Do you have a medical directive and other written instructions in place? Do your loved ones know that you absolutely do not want their help and have you made this clear from a legal perspective?
I am asking this because sometimes cognitive issues, strokes, accidents, dementia, etc hit people pretty much out of the blue and if their wishes aren't clear and legal docs aren't in place, then other people, loved ones, feel a moral obligation at the very least to step in and help in many different ways, some of which you might not want, if you had the choice, but now the choice is out of your hands.
But back to the OP (trying to keep this on point):
I believe the OP's parents discussed this move in great detail with the OP, and they all came to an agreement and a plan together. Now they don't like their living situation and want to move into "independent" living in their own home, but apparently they are not truly able to do so on their own, or live independently on their own.
With elderly people who have spent a lifetime being completely independent and in complete control of their own lives - and often in an ongoing authoritative position with their adult kids - the transition to less independence, lessening abilities, etc is usually at best rocky, and can be absolutely untenable. Most scenarios fall somewhere in between. But what is often overlooked is that this period of need, of increasing dependence, can last for years or even decades - during which time they are nowhere NEAR death or hospice care. What are they supposed to do - off themselves? Are we supposed to sign them up for "death panels?" Take them down to the doctor's office and tell the doctor they need to be put down because they don't have the same quality of life they had when they were in their 40s or 50s?
My point is that there can be years of living - and enjoying much of that living - during which elderly people need increasing care and nurturing from other people. It becomes a team effort. When it's not a team effort, that's when things get crunk.
I agree with KofA that you should just refuse to help. And if they are with it enough to get out and go somewhere else on their own, there is nothing you can do about it. It was their choice. Their choice may well be unwise but it's their decision to make.
Do you have a medical directive and other written instructions in place? Do your loved ones know that you absolutely do not want their help and have you made this clear from a legal perspective?
I am asking this because sometimes cognitive issues, strokes, accidents, dementia, etc hit people pretty much out of the blue and if their wishes aren't clear and legal docs aren't in place, then other people, loved ones, feel a moral obligation at the very least to step in and help in many different ways, some of which you might not want, if you had the choice, but now the choice is out of your hands.
But back to the OP (trying to keep this on point):
I believe the OP's parents discussed this move in great detail with the OP, and they all came to an agreement and a plan together. Now they don't like their living situation and want to move into "independent" living in their own home, but apparently they are not truly able to do so on their own, or live independently on their own.
With elderly people who have spent a lifetime being completely independent and in complete control of their own lives - and often in an ongoing authoritative position with their adult kids - the transition to less independence, lessening abilities, etc is usually at best rocky, and can be absolutely untenable. Most scenarios fall somewhere in between. But what is often overlooked is that this period of need, of increasing dependence, can last for years or even decades - during which time they are nowhere NEAR death or hospice care. What are they supposed to do - off themselves? Are we supposed to sign them up for "death panels?" Take them down to the doctor's office and tell the doctor they need to be put down because they don't have the same quality of life they had when they were in their 40s or 50s?
My point is that there can be years of living - and enjoying much of that living - during which elderly people need increasing care and nurturing from other people. It becomes a team effort. When it's not a team effort, that's when things get crunk.
It's all about expectations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon
I'm sorry - I thought we could have a common sense and civil conversation about this. I see I was wrong. I'll waste no more of your time or mine.
It sounds like you thought you could give me a final word on senior care, but you can't. We differ in our approach and that's the only fact here. You can presume all you want but everyone's situations are different.
You aren't the "head coach" on senior living on this thread. There are tons of resources for people to plan ahead out there from professionals and more coming out daily. "What if's" can be covered to a great extent but in the end they're moot. Like the poster whose family planned and in the end didn't need to execute them. Crap happens and you or I have no way of knowing for sure the outcome but, I can plan and make those choices now.
There's no way to justify your own circumstances by putting forth "what if" scenarios. Your situation happened to you. That doesn't mean it will happen to me. It just means that's how it went for you.
Last edited by Tokinouta; 09-05-2017 at 01:28 PM..
I agree with KofA that you should just refuse to help. And if they are with it enough to get out and go somewhere else on their own, there is nothing you can do about it. It was their choice. Their choice may well be unwise but it's their decision to make.
I totally agree with that. Don't help, but you can also leave them resources to get their own help. You don't have to not help with a vengeance and leave them without any control. Why would you? There are plenty of people they could contact to help with that.
It's easy to get them a social worker, and resources for moving if able or at least a visit to the old neighborhood once in awhile. Sometimes they just want to go back and see their life. That might help them adjust to the new way of life.
I knew a lady who took her mom back to her neighborhood for a stroll. Eventually she stopped asking as she got use to the new place but it helped her feel in control. If the kid can't accommodate that then social workers can set up an aid to do this for an outing. Or you can hire someone for a fee.
This is a great read, it's about the seniors perspective. Here is a passage. " “One of the scariest things to people as they age is that they don’t feel in control anymore,” says Steven Zarit, a professor of human development and family studies at Pennsylvania State University. “So if you tell your dad not to go out and shovel snow, you assume that he’ll listen. It’s the sensible thing. But his response will be to go out and shovel away … It’s a way of holding on to a life that seems to be slipping back.”
I would hope anyone who cares to gives it a read. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...parent/472290/
Most people have the hardest time with losing control. That's worse than any accident, any crime and it is for me.
Maybe the O.P. can do something like that.
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