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Before the late 80's there were hardly any blacks living in homewood. I never thought that white flight being baked into the prices in the area was ever a disputable issue by anyone on this board. Countless others have mentioned the difference in home prices from other comparable income areas. Others have also presented evidence that clearly showed that in the 1990's this area saw a huge disparity in rate of appreciation from other comparable areas as white flight took hold. This trend did not reverse itself until the 2000's when homewood and several other far south suburban areas began to stabilize from white flight and home prices began to move back in tandem with the rest of the overall market.
You blamed the lack of appreciation in Homewood during the 1990s on white flight. The fact of the matter is, real estate was flat across the board for much of the '90s FOR EVERYONE - it had absolutely nothing to do with white flight. In fact, demographics in Homewood did not begin to change swiftly until approximately the year 2000.
So to say that the stabilization began in the 2000s is false as evidenced by both the 2000 Census & the 2010 Census.
After reading 188 posts in this thread it seems that the only people who live in Floomore and Homewood are poor, black, ignorant and live in substandard or Section 8 housing, send their kids to black failing schools and suck government provided services thereby wasting taxpayer money.
API is discounted, affordable homes are isdiscounted, COL is discounted, any success is discounted, facts are discounted and so are the people. If a black family moves in a lily white 'hood it is the ruination of the town. The white grab their undies and run for the hills in mortal terror. Sec. 8 and CHA plogects have to to follow; the town is doomed it has to fail because somebody said it is not possible for black and white to live in the same town. The people had to move there for the cheap hpusing because they can't afford to live in Berwyn or Oak Park or Lincoln Park. They have to live in ghetto because they don't have any money and they don't have any pride. I DO NOT BELIEVE IT.
Why can't a family move to HF becauase the like the area? What exactly is wrong with affordable housing? I have yet to see anyone explain why that is wrong? I know what is wrong with over-inflated house prices. I know what is wrong with a ARM? I know what is wrong with arrogant realtors, racist bankers. and crooked Title companies. Been there, done that and have the shirt ti\o prove it along with the Ex-Parte order for the realtor who stalkied me.
After 188 posts I still do not what is actually wrong with these two cities. Change is constant and so is a population shift. The economy is like the ocean with ebb and flowl. What is acutally wrong with HF?
Why can't a genually nice person be black?
Well, that last sentence is downright silly. A nice person is a nice person - no matter what color, flavor, sex or ethnic background.
Here's what's wrong with HF - the schools are in the early stages of failing and crime has been steadily rising over the last decade plus. It's beginning to mirror exactly what has transpired over the last 20-30 years in the surrounding suburbs ... failing schools, failing community.
Does a child need top notch schools to be a success? Absolutely not - a top notch parent will help them much more than a top notch school. But a top notch school can't hurt. Great schools typically equal parents who care about their children's education. If they care about education, they care about the community. Good schools & community equal an in demand area that will keep housing values solid. And since your house is typically your biggest investment, all of that matters immensely.
With all that being said - HF schools aren't failing because more black kids are attending. HF schools are failing AND more black kids are attending. There's a one word difference in those two sentences - but that's a mighty big word.
We didn't leave Homewood because of changing demographics. I've said that a million times here if I've said it once. We moved because of the schools. That's the number one reason. Schools were starting to take a dive - and my kids are not an experiment. The entire neighborhood could've changed overnight to a bunch of Chinese circus perfomers - if the schools were still on top, my kids would've been the tallest dang kids in that school.
And for the record, my current neighborhood is MUCH more diverse that Homewood could ever hope to be. It's like a frickin' Benneton ad. African American families (that's right - more than one), South African, a family who moved here from Poland 12 years ago, Jewish, Hispanic, Filipino ... the only people who don't live on my block is, ironically Chinese circus performers.
"and crime has been steadily rising over the last decade plus"
Allen just a few pages back argued uncontested that crime statistics have shown minimal fluctuation around a pretty safe mean over the past ten years (important point being that there has been no negative trend). Seems to me that the entire point of these debates is to try to sort out qualitative perceptions of decline, which could be due in part to people's perception that a place is getting suckier just because it is getting blacker, with quantitative evidence that it is really less desirable according to metrics we all agree upon. Nobody could say that a more crime ridden place is just as good as a safer place, so it would seem that this is an important one to get right.
"and crime has been steadily rising over the last decade plus"
Allen just a few pages back argued uncontested that crime statistics have shown minimal fluctuation around a pretty safe mean over the past ten years (important point being that there has been no negative trend). Seems to me that the entire point of these debates is to try to sort out qualitative perceptions of decline, which could be due in part to people's perception that a place is getting suckier just because it is getting blacker, with quantitative evidence that it is really less desirable according to metrics we all agree upon. Nobody could say that a more crime ridden place is just as good as a safer place, so it would seem that this is an important one to get right.
I simply chose not to respond to him as crime data that shows it's been on the rise is easily found on this site.
Don't ever take my non-response as if I agree - sometimes, things said on this site are so ridiculous and false that it's not worth time or effort to respond.
I think linicx's post is less exaggerated than it seems. Some people definitely feel like you on racial issues but a lot of others really don't. And it's not because they consciously say "I hate black people". It's maybe one step removed from that. The see negative things in black people and flee because of the negative things they see (not because of the blacks per se), but often the negative things aren't really there. I've known a ton of people like this. I'm not being judgmental -- heck, I have definitely had that inclination myself -- am very conditioned to think it is getting more dangerous, looks run down, whatever, simply when a few more black families move in. I have to stop myself frequently and ask where those ideas are really coming from, get to know my neighbors personally, etc. and then I realize that things are what they seemed and old attitudes are hard to get rid of. We also have to be honest and realize that this reasoning is somewhat rational given the history of racial tension of the past 50 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckity
Well, that last sentence is downright silly. A nice person is a nice person - no matter what color, flavor, sex or ethnic background.
Here's what's wrong with HF - the schools are in the early stages of failing and crime has been steadily rising over the last decade plus. It's beginning to mirror exactly what has transpired over the last 20-30 years in the surrounding suburbs ... failing schools, failing community.
Does a child need top notch schools to be a success? Absolutely not - a top notch parent will help them much more than a top notch school. But a top notch school can't hurt. Great schools typically equal parents who care about their children's education. If they care about education, they care about the community. Good schools & community equal an in demand area that will keep housing values solid. And since your house is typically your biggest investment, all of that matters immensely.
With all that being said - HF schools aren't failing because more black kids are attending. HF schools are failing AND more black kids are attending. There's a one word difference in those two sentences - but that's a mighty big word.
We didn't leave Homewood because of changing demographics. I've said that a million times here if I've said it once. We moved because of the schools. That's the number one reason. Schools were starting to take a dive - and my kids are not an experiment. The entire neighborhood could've changed overnight to a bunch of Chinese circus perfomers - if the schools were still on top, my kids would've been the tallest dang kids in that school.
And for the record, my current neighborhood is MUCH more diverse that Homewood could ever hope to be. It's like a frickin' Benneton ad. African American families (that's right - more than one), South African, a family who moved here from Poland 12 years ago, Jewish, Hispanic, Filipino ... the only people who don't live on my block is, ironically Chinese circus performers.
After reading 188 posts in this thread it seems that the only people who live in Floomore and Homewood are poor, black, ignorant and live in substandard or Section 8 housing, send their kids to black failing schools and suck government provided services thereby wasting taxpayer money.
API is discounted, affordable homes are isdiscounted, COL is discounted, any success is discounted, facts are discounted and so are the people. If a black family moves in a lily white 'hood it is the ruination of the town. The white grab their undies and run for the hills in mortal terror. Sec. 8 and CHA plogects have to to follow; the town is doomed it has to fail because somebody said it is not possible for black and white to live in the same town. The people had to move there for the cheap hpusing because they can't afford to live in Berwyn or Oak Park or Lincoln Park. They have to live in ghetto because they don't have any money and they don't have any pride. I DO NOT BELIEVE IT.
Why can't a family move to HF becauase the like the area? What exactly is wrong with affordable housing? I have yet to see anyone explain why that is wrong? I know what is wrong with over-inflated house prices. I know what is wrong with a ARM? I know what is wrong with arrogant realtors, racist bankers. and crooked Title companies. Been there, done that and have the shirt ti\o prove it along with the Ex-Parte order for the realtor who stalkied me.
After 188 posts I still do not what is actually wrong with these two cities. Change is constant and so is a population shift. The economy is like the ocean with ebb and flowl. What is acutally wrong with HF?
Why so awesome? That post was essentially a glorified "hey, can't we all just get along"
As Chuckcity stated, our kids and their education need not be a social experiment.
Affordable housing sounds great on the surface but many people are successful because of the sacrifices people make to allow their families to succeed. Some are born with silver spoons in their mouths but many worked hard to get where they are at and are able to buy homes in better areas.
I am an example of this. Though Urza may not believe this I have not taken a dime from my parents ever, paying school thru scholarships and buying properties out of my hard-earned wages at jobs I had to fight to land that were not handed to me by my dad's business contacts.
I am 33 years old and may start having kids in the next 3-5 years. By the time my kids are in college I will have saved up money for them to pay for university if they are not able to get scholarships. By the time my kids are in school we will be able to afford to buy in Oak Park or comparable area. Is this because I am from a wealthy family (have yet to receive a dime at 33 again) or is this because I have sacrificed to save towards my family's future?
I know plenty of people whose parents worked extra jobs so that they could afford to move into better school districts.
Some people are born with lots of brains and easily get into a Northwestern (some are kids of wealthy alum too) but many work hard to make grades and get in the old fashioned way.
Affordability in many ways is not always a bad thing, nor is exclusivity. We are equal in the eyes of God, but we need to stop trying to pretend we are all of the same ability in all things.
Why so awesome? That post was essentially a glorified "hey, can't we all just get along"
As Chuckcity stated, our kids and their education need not be a social experiment.
Affordable housing sounds great on the surface but many people are successful because of the sacrifices people make to allow their families to succeed. Some are born with silver spoons in their mouths but many worked hard to get where they are at and are able to buy homes in better areas.
I am an example of this. Though Urza may not believe this I have not taken a dime from my parents ever, paying school thru scholarships and buying properties out of my hard-earned wages at jobs I had to fight to land that were not handed to me by my dad's business contacts.
1. Why was the post so “awesome?” Light was shed on how people are almost being told to shut up if they defend where they live. Minorities who defend their towns are seen kinda like fools. Why are people moving to Homewood if there’s so much wrong with it? Obviously white flight is not as drastic in Homewood as it seems to be. H-F is still a good high school, way above the many other high schools in the state. Every kid cannot go to the best school. There’s only so many.
2. Social experiment? Homewood is 70% white. If anything, it's a social experiment for someone who is not white. (OOPS! I stand corrected. Homewood is 62% white.)
3. Affordable housing means average middle income people can afford to live in a nice home. Where are minorities supposed to go? Are they supposed to live in poor(er) areas because of their different skin tone? There seems to be an implication that minorities are not supposed to move up? Not saying that's what I feel you are saying, but it's just kind of a bad vibe I get even from people in real life, like I'm never supposed to move up in life because I am a certain ethnicity...
Sorry, getting sleepy, hope you understand what I'm trying to say.
FYI, I am a minority as well. Not only are we Black but our family are immigrants as well. Anybody can live wherever they want to live. But if someone asks for information about a town, I give them all the information. I have said that Flossmoor and Homewood are very nice towns. But the schools overall are pretty much the only issue we had with the area...that is why we did not move there. It had nothing to do with race...who the hell would we be to say anything bad about Black when people might think the same thing of us because WE are Black? You can defend your towns that is fine. But defending a town by simply saying "well where are minorities supposed to go" or "this town is good because it has middle-class Blacks" is kind of absurd. Minorities can go anywhere even in "lily-white" towns. Stop acting like everyone is against minorities because people sure as heck were not against us. And guess what? We were one of the first upper-middle class Black families in Munster AND we had one of the first homes built on our street. Did that stop white people from moving in? No. And in fact, my street alone has African-American, Nigerian, Ghanaian, Vietnamese, Chinese, Indiana, Greek, Polish, and non-Ethnic Whites. And in some of the homes, there is more than two generations living there. And even though we are pretty much all upper-middle class, there is still some very visible variations in the home sizes, lifestyles (luxury cars vs. non-luxury, etc.) which I feel qualifies as being very diverse....Simply have a "Black or White" town is not diverse IMO. Anybody can move up the socio-economic ladder. And yes, some people may need HELP. That is fine! But some people want more than just help. They want a handout. Many Blacks are moving on up WITHOUT handouts and this is great! It means that the more Blacks move up, the less ridiculous it is to assume that a town must have affordable housing in order to attract minorities. If affordable housing or forced integration is the only way to attract diversity, it will create issues. Naturally occurring "unforced" and "unpressured" diversity is usually always better. But at the end of the day, I just want to know I have good neighbors, a good community, and good schools. Homewood/Flossmoor lost us on the school part compared to other communities. It had nothing to do with "minorities" seeing as in we are minorities.
correction homewood is 56% white....a major change from its 77% in 2000. I live in Homewood, and have african american neighbors they're great people. White ppl get scared that their town will become a gangland like what happened to Harvey or Gary In when african americans move in.
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