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Perhaps it is time for you to start rejoicing Richard?
TWO EXPOSITIONS SHOWING THAT A CORRECTLY (LITERALLY, NOT INTERPRETIVELY) TRANSLATED BIBLE TEACHES UNIVERSAL SALVATION
A great seventeen chapter introductory series to ultimate reconciliation.
J. Preston Eby does a thorough job covering many aspects of the topic.
Fundamental reading for any person interested in studying universalism from a solid biblical perspective. Highly Recommended! THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES Kingdom Bible Studies: J. Preston Eby, Kingdom of God; Saviour of The World
I don't need any other source for God except the Bible...I study the Bible in the Greek and Hebrew...
There is no second chance to be saved.
There is not even a first chance to be saved.
God doesn't save anyone by giving them a "chance."
God saves people by influencing them like He did for Saul of Tarsus, and Nebuchadnezzar.
Just because your beginning to trust in Jesus wasn't as dramatic as Saul's doesn't mean that it was any less an accomplishment of God's grace in action, no thanks to yourself at all.
CONCERNING THE GREEK AND THE HEBREW
THE FOLLOWING HAS, AND ALWAYS WILL BE TRUE REGARDING THE DEBATE ABOUT THE GREEK AND THE HEBREW AND THE SUBJECT OF ETERNAL TORMENT
The argument about “eternal hell” nearly always gets bogged down with the words,
“My Greek and Hebrew scholars are more reliable than your Greek and Hebrew scholars,” and the result is nearly always a stalemate.
My Greek scholars are Louis Abbott and the manyGreek scholars he quotes in chapters three and twelve of
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS An Analytical Study of Words
If you think it glorifies God more to let some of His creatures suffer forever, or annihilate them, then you keep believing that.
But if you think it glorifies God more to eventually meet everyone on the level of their greatest and deepest need which is a change in their stubborn will, then know that there is plenty of evidence in the Bible that that is exactly what God is like.
I'm bringing this over from the "Hell - Eternal Torment or Annihilation...?" thread because it has to do with the subject matter of this thread.
sciotamicks wrote
Quote:
Stats show that one human being will reject the Gospel at least 5 times in their life. I rejected it 4.
Christ came to save those who believe in Him. None other."
Sciotamicks, as a free-willer, do you really think that God gave Saul of Tarsus a "chance" to accept or reject Him?
Same question concerning Nebuchadnezzar.
God allows His grace to temporarily be resisted to teach lessons.
But ultimately, God's grace can NEVER be defeated.
HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE Concordant Expositions (html format) - His Achievement Are We The introduction at the beginning of each of the seventeen chapters is not the chapter itself. You must click on the highlighted title of each chapter to bring up the entire chapter to read it.
sciotamicks, it is a mistake to think we achieve our salvation by using our "free will" to properly cooperate with God.
Since believing, when we do it, is a good mental work, it cannot “qualify” us to receive salvation because we are saved "not of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:9).
James Coram comments
“It is an empty gesture to go through the motions of “giving all the glory to God,” while at the same time continually believing, thinking and often even insistently declaring that good decisions and acts are things which ultimately owe their existence to one’s own self, God having but made them “possible.” May He enlighten us to see, truly, that it is “in the grace of God” that “I am what I am” (1 Cor.15:10). biblical studies: His Achievement Are We - Part 6 - Judgment and Indignation
URs see in the Bible that God is choosing a first fruits of election, a remnant chosen by grace alone out of each generation. Then, later, all of the non-elect will be saved too.
You act like that it's a bad thing ..... I would say rather http://http.cdnlayer.com/cf/images/smilies/clap.gif (broken link)http://http.cdnlayer.com/cf/images/smilies/amen.gif (broken link)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt
I'm bringing this over from the "Hell - Eternal Torment or Annihilation...?" thread because it has to do with the subject matter of this thread.
do you really think that God gave Saul of Tarsus a "chance" to accept or reject Him\
Paul himself admitted the his coming to faith was "abnormally born". Most people come to faith by continual exposure, not dramatic fassion.
Everyday when unbelievers hear the truth ... each day is a "chance" so to speak. But this time for repentance most definitely has a limited time, it ends at death. Romans 9:27
All false beliefs have this common message, that beyond life the opportunity still exists to come to faith ... "the second chance"
All false beliefs have this common message, that beyond life the opportunity still exists to come to faith ... "the second chance"
All false beliefs have this in common, that they think they have achieved their salvation by their cooperation, whereas the truth is that their cooperation was the result of God laying hold on them by His saving grace.
It is NOT of him who is willing, but of God who showeth mercy.
Romans 9:16
Also, the idea that one can find salvation only during this life time is an unscriptural myth.
After death comes the judgment, yes, but that judgment will result in kolasis aionion which means age-during corrective chastisement for those who need it. Chapter Eleven
Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46
"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."
Kolasis aionion doesn't save. Only Jesus saves. But it will condition the rebellious sinner to sooner or later reach out for the salvation that Jesus has provided by having them temporarily experience the consequences of their rebellion.
All false beliefs have this in common, that they think they have achieved their salvation by their cooperation, whereas the truth is that their cooperation was the result of God laying hold on them by His saving grace.
No one disputes that
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt
It is NOT of him who is willing, but of God who showeth mercy.
Romans 9:16.
oh for context 2 verses later ....
Roman 9:18
"Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. "
"all" isn't "all inclusive"
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodgertutt
Also, the idea that one can find salvation only during this life time is an unscriptural myth.
.
You'll have a chance someday to tell Jesus how mythical he is. I'm sure there be a whole lot of people counting on your words
Matthew 25:41
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Departfromme, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."
You act like that it's a bad thing ..... I would say rather
Paul himself admitted the his coming to faith was "abnormally born". Most people come to faith by continual exposure, not dramatic fassion.
Paul believed because he was given proof of Christs existence and resurrection and power. He did not believe without having seen. Those who believe without having seen are even more blessed. But one day everyone will believe because everyone, like Paul and Thomas, will finally see.
Quote:
Everyday when unbelievers hear the truth ... each day is a "chance" so to speak. But this time for repentance most definitely has a limited time, it ends at death. Romans 9:27
Romans 9:37 says nothing about death being the time limit in which a person has opportunity to be saved.
You really like to spin those verses, don't ya twinny ...
And you cannot read Romans 9:37 without continuing all the way through the letter, especially to chapter 11 where Paul clearly states that all Israel will be saved and though they stumbled at the stumbling block(Christ) and were hardened and made enemies of the gospel for the sake of the world, they are nevertheless beloved for the sake of the patriarchs and shall receive mercy by the mercy given believers.
Romans 11:7-12
What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, as it is written: “God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that could not see
and ears that could not hear,
to this very day.”
And David says:
“May their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,
and their backs be bent forever.” Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!
And a little further down we read ...
Romans 11:25-32 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part untilthe full number of the Gentiles has come in, andin this wayall Israelwill be saved. As it is written:
“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.” As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience who were at one time disobedient to God , so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too maynow receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Quote:
All false beliefs have this common message, that beyond life the opportunity still exists to come to faith ... "the second chance"
Islam doesn't ... Though there are some sects of Islam that teach reincarnation. And various pagan religions do not either. Also various gnostic sects taught eternal torment, such as the Manicheans ...
Also, biblical Christian universalism does not teach "beyond life the opportunity still exists to come to faith" ... "the second chance" ... That is another one of if your false witnesses. Biblical Christian Universalism teaches that coming to faith is an irresistible eventuality and inevitability for all people, before or after this life. Its not about having "opportunity" to be saved, its about the fact that all are saved and how everyone will eventually and inevitably recognize that fact and believe on Christ.
That is what the OP of this thread is about ... If you haven't noticed.
Why cant you just accept the truth about what Biblical Christian Universalism actually teaches?
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 11-04-2010 at 09:22 PM..
I delivered the poor who cried, and the orphan who had no helper.
I put on righteousness, and it clothed me; my justice was like a flowing white robe and a turban of wisdom.
I was eyes to the blind, and feet to the lame.
I was a father to the needy, and I championed the cause of the stranger.
I broke the fangs of the unrighteous, and made them drop their prey from their teeth.
The blessing of the wretched came upon me, and I caused the widow's heart to sing for joy.
There are no second chances to be saved. Yep, that's right. But did you know there are no first chances to be saved? The bible never uses the word "chance" in connection with salvation. Why? Because God does not save people for the coming ages by chance but by choice . . . His choice.
He chose specific individuals before they were born who would be saved to live for the duration of the next two ages to come. The rest of mankind He did not choose.
So if there is an eternal hell, then God created billions of people just for the sole purpose of eternally torturing them since He obviously chose for them to not be saved. That is what the ET doctrine must boil down to if such a fate awaits the majority of mankind.
"God chose us before the disruption of the world." That disruption occurred way back in Genesis 1:2 before any human was created.
So, there are no second chances and no first chances. Salvation is not by chance but choice; His choice.
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There is no second chance to be saved
THE FIFTH “CHANCE” THAT sciotamicks TOOK
