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2 Samuel 14 is an interesting exchange between a woman and the king about Abslom, who had been banished from Jerusalem to return home. Up to this point in the story there are similarities to the story of the prodigal son, who was lost and God brought him back home. However, the story has nothing to do with people who have already died like those who died in Noahs time. In their case, God regretted he had even created them, and decided to wipe them out. They died in their sins, and God made a covenant with Noah and his decendats only.
After Jesus died on the cross Peter says He preached to the spirits in prison that had been disobedient in the days of Noah. "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient (no longer disobedient means their prison was working), when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." (1 Pet 3:18-20, AV) It is definitely taught by God's own word that: "For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit." (1 Pet 4:6, AV)
Some say I believe in a second chance. I tell them I don't believe in a first chance. God isn't doing this by chance. It's not just a clever rebuttal. "...according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will." (Eph 1:10, AV) "God is working together the all..." is the beginning of Rom 8:28. Wouldn't someone even by chance, that is, by accident choose the right way if it was up to us? Scripture says, "They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one." (Rom 3:12, AV) This is because all are under "the law of sin unto death" from which Christ makes us free. Do you realize the promise to not be hurt of the second death is to the Overcomer? (cf., Rev 2:11) I think there is suffering beyond this life. A lot of Christians are going to be very surprised.
Salvation is from the law of both sin and death by the higher law of life in Christ producing both righteousness and victory over death. "...for the spirit's law of life in Christ Jesus frees you from the law of sin and death. " (Rom 8:2, CLV) Salvation is partaking of the Divine nature, being conformed to the image and likeness of God, spirit, soul and body, not merely a better location in death, however true that may be too. Nothing in the Bible says God's saving work is limited to this life, or that it ceases when somebody dies. All it takes to prove this wrong is to quote a verse that says something like that. Salvation is from the law of both sin and death by the higher law of life in Christ producing both righteousness and victory over death. "...for the spirit's law of life in Christ Jesus frees you from the law of sin and death. " (Rom 8:2, CLV) Salvation is partaking of the Divine nature, being conformed to the image and likeness of God, spirit, soul and body, not merely a better location in death, however true that may be too. Nothing in the Bible says God's saving work is limited to this life, or that it ceases when somebody dies. All it takes to prove this wrong is to quote a verse that says something like that.
Something Jesus did say was, "who believes in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live." (in John 11:25-26, CLV) He could've used an adjective to indicate He was referring merely to "spiritual" life and death; but, He didn't! Don't add words to explain away what He said. Meditate on it. In that place He also indicated victory over death by going on to say, "And, everyone living and believing into Me, should by no means be dying into the eon. Are you believing this?"
After Jesus died on the cross Peter says He preached to the spirits in prison that had been disobedient in the days of Noah.
He made a proclamation (kerusso) to the demons in tartarus (prison for certain fallen angels see Genesis 6). The Bible does not say what the proclamation was, and it does not say Jesus released them, or that the demons were no longer disobedient. The Bible says in other places that the angels were chained in prison until the day of judgment.
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Something Jesus did say was, "who believes in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live." (in John 11:25-26, CLV) He could've used an adjective to indicate He was referring merely to "spiritual" life and death; but, He didn't! Don't add words to explain away what He said. Meditate on it. In that place He also indicated victory over death by going on to say, "And, everyone living and believing into Me, should by no means be dying into the eon. Are you believing this?"
The verse talks about eternal life of those who believe Christ. Yes, we all die physical death, but if you have faith in Christ, you will have eternal life. Pay attention to "he who believes". It excludes those who do not believe. Meditate on it.
John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; 26and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"
He made a proclamation (kerusso) to the demons in tartarus (prison for certain fallen angels see Genesis 6). The Bible does not say what the proclamation was, and it does not say Jesus released them, or that the demons were no longer disobedient. The Bible says in other places that the angels were chained in prison until the day of judgment.
The verse talks about eternal life of those who believe Christ. Yes, we all die physical death, but if you have faith in Christ, you will have eternal life. Pay attention to "he who believes". It excludes those who do not believe. Meditate on it.
John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; 26and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"
John 17:3. Now this is eternal life: that they may know you,
If you BELIEVE>>>>>>>>you have God, who IS eternal life.
You can drink spiritually from his life. It wakes you up!Not for a few hours, like coffee, but permanently!
You have to KNOW him, first. Everybody will wake up, eventually. Jesus will lose none the father has given him, and the father has given him everybody.
Socrates saw death as being similar to sleep without dreams, having no perception. Of course, this does not resemble that of a descent into an
Unscriptural Hades; where the wicked undergo a preliminary form of punishment in a subterranean cave derived from within the minds of men.
Jerwade,
I guess it really depends on who we would define as wicked....
You are imposing your idea of the word force onto the passage and then saying what someone believes isn't right.
I proved to you the concept of force is biblical, your implication of what you want that word force to be in order to argue against something is false. It is putting words in the mouths of others.
The whole bible adds up to the truth not just one passage and YOUR opinion of a word.
John 6:44 states that no one comes to the father unless he is drawn.
You simply make the case that I am not to believe what the verse states, it says no one, it means no one.
What the truth is is to see what all that adds up to in scripture.
I've rejected God when something happened to me that I could not deny, but I still was drawn to him in such a manner that eventually I came to accept it.
You tell me to read the passage, I do, but I also read other passages and I have READ john 6:44 and it says what it says, NO ONE but the problem is you do not want me to read scripture, you want me to believe YOU.
It's funny how literalist pick and choose what is exactly literal .
I believe when it says no one in John 6 verse 44 it means exactly that.
Those who reject it , reject it on the basis that everything their faith is based on goes down like dominoes , from being saved being the whole work of God, to the destiny of those they consider worthy of eternal torment.
Yes, God draws people, but the question I asked was whether or not he draws EVERYONE. I have repeated it so many times here that I wonder why I bother to explain is again.
Much of the problem I see is the abuse of the word "believe".
Do you believe that taking vitamins ,is good for you ?
Do you actually invest and take those vitamins ? your level of faith in that product is exactly the amount you act on it . If you don't act on it you merely have an understanding of it's significance but not a comitment to it. Like another hobby among many, fun but not necessary for servival.
Jesus terms of believing are specific, and require a devotion I doubt many have ever behaved. But with in this devotion , the contrast to the commom christian is staggering. But the influence of the Holy spirit is phenominal.
Believing takes on a new energy when it is behaved.
But if believing just as a hobby,it is then an illusion. One that God will not over ride,nor under write.
If you believe that you can servive with out 100% honest devotion to God , your dependency still remains on your own capabilities and resources and knowledge even bible knowledge.David said " do not lean on your own understanding" Prov.
Jesus made it infiantly clear to satan ,Mattherw 4;" Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God ." Several times Jesus said," I only do what the Father tells me" . This is the obedience we are expected to walk in, the realtionship of obedience that can only be known throught the Holy Spirit, Jesus designated in His place to teach and give guidance in the will of God .
Jesus said the way is narrow . This is exactly how narrow it is. Matthew 7;21,22,23,
Jesus is the word of God. John 1; No other man has that title , no other man can superseed the things Jesus said, and we are accountable to those things, and will stand before Him to give account in the light of those things Jesus said .
Last edited by arleigh; 10-18-2010 at 10:35 AM..
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