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August the only place the assumption of Mary is ever recorded is in the apocryphal writings.
In the list of apocryphal writings which are to be rejected Gelasius signifies the following work: Liber qui apellatur Transitus, id est Assumptio Sanctae Mariae, Apocryphus (Pope Gelasius 1, Epistle 42, Migne Series, M.P.L. vol. 59, Col. 162). This specifically means the Transitus writing of the assumption of Mary.
At the end of the decree he states that this and all the other listed literature is heretical and that their authors and teachings and all who adhere to them are condemned and placed under eternal anathema which is indissoluble.
Pope Gelasius explicitly condemns the authors as well as their writings and the teachings which they promote and all who follow them. And significantly, this entire decree and its condemnation was reaffirmed by pope Hormisdas in the sixth century around A.D. 520. (Migne Vol. 62. Col. 537-542).
So here we have two infallible popes stating the assumption of Mary is heretical.
Just put in Gelasius 1 on the assumption of Mary and you will get a lot of links concerning it.
Pneuma, I need to read "Liber qui apellatur Transitus, id est Assumptio Sanctae Mariae, Apocryphus" its entirety. Do you have a link to it? I haven't been able to locate it OR the decree either.
Two councils, that of Constance (1415) and Basle (1432) declared that the pope is to OBEY the councils. The council of Constance even deposed pope John XXIII.
However, in 1870 it was declared that the pope alone is infallible.
The Council of Pisa declared that a council is superior to a pope.
The Council of Constance also declared that a council is superior to a pope
So who is superior the councils or the popes?
Remember the councils have deposed popes, how can this be if the pope is infallible?
Remember you said (referring to the RCC) the gates of hell would not prevail against the church.
Yet the infallible pope Vigilinus confessed he had been a tool of Satan at the 5th Ecumenical Council of Constantinople in 553 (History of the Christian Councils, Vol. IV, p. 345).
How can one infallible pope, Eugene IV (1431-1447), condemn Joan of Arc (1412-1431) to be burned alive as a witch, while another pope, Benedict XV, in 1919, declares her to be a saint?
And what about Galileo who was condemned by Pope Paul V and pope Urban VIII for teaching the earth moves around the sun. These popes imprisoned Galileo and said his theory was false, heretical and contrary to the word of God.
Now remember these popes did not just say what Galileo believed was false and heretical they said it was contrary to the WORD OF GOD, something they are suppose to be infallible in regards to.
Yet we today know Galileo was correct in his view and the infallible popes were in error of the WORD OF GOD.
There has only been two instances of papal infallibility invoked, remember?
Pneuma, I urge you to be objective and research Catholicism from Catholic sources opposed to anti-catholic ones. I have yet to find a decent argument from the detractors anyway.
Blessings,
augusta
Last edited by Augusta33; 08-28-2011 at 11:15 AM..
Reason: addition
Your ecumenical councils has condemned an infallible pope and so have other pope condemned other infallible popes
Not when they were speaking Ex Cathedra.
That say more then you know sis. What it tells me is that the popes have only heard the word of God twice. It also tells me they are scared to say what they teach is Ex Cathedra as they know that by saying it is Ex Cathedra their infallibility doctrine would be exposed for the sham it is.
Yes God sends men to teach, but who is it that they teach to? Those who have yet to be given the anointing. Once the anointing of the Holy Spirit comes to live inside you, you no longer need any man to teach you as it is the Holy Spirit that lead us into ALL truth.
I actually held this view at one time myself before converting. It really is nonsensical because if this were the case then there would have been no need for Scripture. Furthermore, the Apostles were addressing/teaching the anointed in their epistles. The passages in Scripture say that this (Holy Spirit that lead us into ALL truth) only in reference to the apostles.
You can disagree with my stance here sis but I gave you scriptures that back up what I have put forth.
You have ignored those scriptures.
And I am not the one who states he is infallible, that statement belongs to the pope.
Peter was a leader, and according to Paul Peter lead people into hypocrisy. One is a hypocrite if one says do as I say not as I do, Which according to Paul Peter was doing.
Sis you keep ignoring my question
So tell me why Paul upbraided Peter if Peter did not teach by his actions hypocrisy.
No, I just still do not understand it. Once again, under your standard of being sinless NO teacher could teach, not only Peter.
Well I have scripture for backing you have the word of a pope, I'll believe what the scripture show. Show me in those scriptures where it says the keys were given to Peter to signifying his primacy.
I did. " And I will give you(singular) the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven..."
Like I said before, all the other apostles were present so if Jesus wanted them to have keys he could have very easily given keys to them too. But he didn't.
Sorry but the catholic Church has not survived unto this day under a pope. In 1054 the catholic church became divided into the RCC and eastern orthodox
No, the Schism doesn't affect the unity of the Church. Same Church, just less members.
The true Catholic Church only has ONE head, that being Jesus Christ.
Yep, Christ is still the head and before He left He made Peter head. Just like if a CEO goes on vacation and assigns someone else to sit in in his absence, it doesn't mean he loses his title.
Yep, Christ is still the head and before He left He made Peter head. Just like if a CEO goes on vacation and assigns someone else to sit in in his absence, it doesn't mean he loses his title.
Christ is still the head of His Church and communicates to the Church through the Holy Spirit. This is the protection from the gates of Hell that Jesus was talking about in Matthew 16. However, you still need a leader on earth. EVERY organization needs a leader if it wants to continue as an entity. The Pope having received that Authority of heading His Church on earth, is that leader. The orthodox schism didn't change anything. As our Church, the one Holy and Apostolic Catholic Church, looked to Rome for leadership for that is where the Vicar of Christ, Bishop of Rome was living.
Early Church Father Irenaeus of Lyon (c. 180)
Against Heresies, Book 3, Chapter 3, Verse 2:
2. Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its preeminent authority, that is, the faithful everywhere, inasmuch as the tradition has been preserved continuously by those [faithful men] who exist everywhere.
St. Irenaeus was a student of Polycarp who was a student of John the Evangelist. Authority by the folks who knew what the Church was and what the faith and traditions were, passed down to people who came after them. It was clear that Rome is and has always been the home of THE Church. Jesus's Church. Can I hear an amen?
Last edited by GoodToBeHome; 08-28-2011 at 06:44 PM..
Christ is still the head of His Church and communicates to the Church through the Holy Spirit. This is the protection from the gates of Hell that Jesus was talking about in Matthew 16. However, you still need a leader on earth. EVERY organization needs a leader if it wants to continue as an entity. The Pope having received that Authority of heading His Church on earth, is that leader. The orthodox schism didn't change anything. As our Church, the one Holy and Apostolic Catholic Church, looked to Rome for leadership for that is where the Vicar of Christ, Bishop of Rome was living.
Early Church Father Irenaeus of Lyon (c. 180)
Against Heresies, Book 3, Chapter 3, Verse 2:
2. Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its preeminent authority, that is, the faithful everywhere, inasmuch as the tradition has been preserved continuously by those [faithful men] who exist everywhere.
St. Irenaeus was a student of Polycarp who was a student of John the Evangelist. Authority by the folks who knew what the Church was and what the faith and traditions were, passed down to people who came after them. It was clear that Rome is and has always been the home of THE Church. Jesus's Church. Can I hear an amen?
You know you can. Amen!
So do you do much reading, GTBH? If so we'll have to talk books sometime!
Pneuma, I need to read "Liber qui apellatur Transitus, id est Assumptio Sanctae Mariae, Apocryphus" its entirety. Do you have a link to it? I haven't been able to locate it OR the decree either.
No I could not find a link to that sis, however even Catholics do not deny it was said they just say he was condemning the books not everything in the books.
Well we know Peter was there as well because his grave is. But the question is why Rome?
People have to be baried somewhere.
Paul was the preacher to rome, that can be seen in scripture, s why did he not recognise Peter as the head of the church when he gave his salutation to rome?
Why do we not see in scripture where Peter ever preached to rome?
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