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You say God only creates good fruit, that man was a son of God, a HOLY temple - a good fruit.
Yet this good fruit was disobedient. This good fruit was actually bad.
OK this is as clear as I can narrow it down to how this doesn't make sense.
You say God only creates good fruit, that man was a son of God, a HOLY temple - a good fruit.
Yet this good fruit was disobedient. This good fruit was actually bad.
For me, it doesn't follow.
Man was disobedient, so yes he was a bad fruit but God's creation is not yet complete. He is still working in his creation until he completes his work on the seventh day. When he is finished working in his creation, it will be the perfect fruit.
Look at it in terms of, God is creating a building and the end product is not yet complete even though he has completed the blueprint (his spoken word).
Philippians 2:13
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
You see God is good, and for that purpose we can be assured that we will ALL be good fruit, for the Creator's end product can be nothing but good. He is still working. It is not yet complete!!!
In other words we know none will perish for then the tree that was good(God) would have produce bad fruit(his children who perished), and that is impossible!!!!
Genesis 2:1-3
1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
So we know that God completes his work on the seventh day. When is the seventh day? It is the sabbath day of rest.
Leviticus 23:3
Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation;
Notice that the sabbath day was also a holy convocation. It is a holy gathering; when he gathers us all.
Has the sabbath already occurred? No, hence why the fruit is not yet good. The sabbath is still to come. God is not yet finished, He has not yet made all things new.
Hebrews 4:4-10
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
No God did not create Satan, Satan created himself.
So then I take it you do not believe that God is the only Creator and I guess you also do no believe him when he said:
John 1:3
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
and also
Colossains 1:16-17
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Man was disobedient, so yes he was a bad fruit but God's creation is not yet complete. He is still working in his creation until he completes his work on the seventh day. When he is finished working in his creation, it will be the perfect fruit.
Look at it in terms of, God is creating a building and the end product is not yet complete even though he has completed the blueprint (his spoken word).
Philippians 2:13
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
You see God is good, and for that purpose we can be assured that we will ALL be good fruit, for the Creator's end product can be nothing but good. He is still working. It is not yet complete!!!
In other words we know none will perish for then the tree that was good(God) would have produce bad fruit(his children who perished), and that is impossible!!!!
Genesis 2:1-3
1Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
So we know that God completes his work on the seventh day. When is the seventh day? It is the sabbath day of rest.
Leviticus 23:3
Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation;
Notice that the sabbath day was also a holy convocation. It is a holy gathering; when he gathers us all.
Has the sabbath already occurred? No, hence why the fruit is not yet good. The sabbath is still to come. God is not yet finished, He has not yet made all things new.
Hebrews 4:4-10
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
This is so what I believe. Jesus is the pattern son and we will all be in His likeness when God enters His Sabbath.
Excerpts from From A.P Adams speaking of the 'two accounts of creation, the first being Genesis 1:1 through 2:3 and the second beginning in Genesis 2:4 and not having any particular ending..it just sort of keeps on going after the words of 2:3 saying, "here is a summary, or whatever version translates those words as:
4. In the first account everything that God makes is pronounced "good;" and at last when His creative work is crowned with man in His own image, all is stamped with the divine seal as "very good." Nothing is pronounced good in the second account.
12. Finally, and perhaps more significant than all the rest, in the first account everything that is done is God's work. Man has nothing to do with it. God does the whole work from the beginning until he creates man in His own image and likeness, and rests because everything "He has made" is very good. In the second account, the prohibition laid upon him, man is made a party to the work; and he spoils it all, as he always has, by his disobedience. The first account is rounded out, and perfectly completed, bright and glorious, by "everything very good," and God resting "from all His work." (Gen. 2:2). The second account runs sadly on into the devil's disastrous work, man's disobedience, and the apparent ruin of the race. When we see it thus we feel like exclaiming, O that the first account might have been the true and only one! where there is no law, no serpent, no sin, no death. But many who would thus express themselves little think that without this second account, with all its disastrous consequences, man would never have reached the perfect state, and God's work would never have been completed.
And all the evils in this world come from that fallen nature, NOT from God who is love.
"I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and I create evil; I am the Lord, Who does ALL these things." (Isaiah 45:7)
"Consider the work of God: who can make straight what He has made crooked"? (Ecclesiastes 7:12)
"For to vanity was the creation made subject -- not of its will, but because of Him who did subject it."(Romans 8:20)
Quote:
Originally posted by pneuma,
No God did not create Satan, Satan created himself.
"By His Spirit He hath garnished the heavens; HIS HAND hath formed the crooked serpent." (Job 26:13)
"Now THE SERPENT was more subtle than any BEAST of the field which THE LORD GOD HAD MADE" (Genesis 3:1).
That verse (Genesis 3:1) states that 1. the nature of the serpent is a BEAST - and 2. GOD MADE HIM.
"For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. - For ALL THINGS originate with Him and come from Him; all things live through Him, and all things center in and tend to consummate and to end in Him. To Him be glory forever! Amen! (Romans 11:36)
PS - Comment on Genesis 3:1 above - Not BEAST as in literal wild animal - but the point being that the serpent was another creation of God - as were the beasts of the field - just to clarify.
This is so what I believe. Jesus is the pattern son and we will all be in His likeness when God enters His Sabbath.
Excerpts from From A.P Adams speaking of the 'two accounts of creation, the first being Genesis 1:1 through 2:3 and the second beginning in Genesis 2:4 and not having any particular ending..it just sort of keeps on going after the words of 2:3 saying, "here is a summary, or whatever version translates those words as:
4. In the first account everything that God makes is pronounced "good;" and at last when His creative work is crowned with man in His own image, all is stamped with the divine seal as "very good." Nothing is pronounced good in the second account.
12. Finally, and perhaps more significant than all the rest, in the first account everything that is done is God's work. Man has nothing to do with it. God does the whole work from the beginning until he creates man in His own image and likeness, and rests because everything "He has made" is very good. In the second account, the prohibition laid upon him, man is made a party to the work; and he spoils it all, as he always has, by his disobedience. The first account is rounded out, and perfectly completed, bright and glorious, by "everything very good," and God resting "from all His work." (Gen. 2:2). The second account runs sadly on into the devil's disastrous work, man's disobedience, and the apparent ruin of the race. When we see it thus we feel like exclaiming, O that the first account might have been the true and only one! where there is no law, no serpent, no sin, no death. But many who would thus express themselves little think that without this second account, with all its disastrous consequences, man would never have reached the perfect state, and God's work would never have been completed.
Hey Scarlet, very, very interesting article. I read it through, it mirrors a lot of what I have believed. It helps to read it a few times especially with the Bible present for I was able to fill in the blanks of some questions I had. Thank you so much for sharing it. I would encourage others to read it as well.
The big picture is, if God would like to have human followers, He will leave humans an infallible reference for man to follow. Or else, humans will be clueless about who to follow. Without such a reference we can't even know who God might be.
If God left us with such a reference, He will have to assign an earthly authority such that His this reference will be able to be carried forward through human history. Without such an authority everyone can pop up to claim to have the reference.
Christianity happens to be such a religion (perhaps the only one) that God left us with an infallible Bible and His this reference has been carried forward along with human history by an authority. It is because this authority is an earthly authority that it is corruptible and thus can be re-assigned. His this authority shifted from the Jews to the Catholics and then to the Protestants. They are keeping the same OT (some added by the Catholics and removed by the Protestants but it basically the same Canon), while the same NT was carried forward from the Catholics to the Protestants.
So rather to believe that you have the new revelation that His earthly authority together with Christians/Jews before our age/generation were wrong, it bears a good chance that you are the one who is in the wrong side.
The Bible warns that in the end time people would like to hear what's comfortable to their ears instead of what the Bible is actually saying. So which doctrine is more candy-coated for you to hear and which doctrine which makes you "right" but all Christians in history wrong?!
The Bible never said that the angels can die. It is pretty safe to say that angels are immortal beings. However, after leaving God angels become the devils. So maybe it's a wrong assumption that humans are more superior than the angels. If humans are with an immortal soul, they will be the same devils after leaving God.
Matthew 25
41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
So if God can burn devils who are originally the immortal angels, maybe He will also burn the same devils but originally humans.
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For me, it doesn't follow.
