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Been reading through the thread. This is where your whole argument falls apart for me.
God is good and cannot produce bad works. OK. You say God created man good and holy.
BUT why did man sin? God created man. God cannot create something bad.
That is correct a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit.
Example: Apple trees bring forth good apples, but if an apple falls to the ground it rots as it has been severed from the tree.
So you blame Satan.
But if man was good and holy, Satan could not have tempted them.
Is that not the same thing as saying Jesus was not good and holy? After all was He not tempted of the devil?
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And then there is the problem of where Satan came from. Nothing exists that didn't come from God. So how did Satan become corrupt? He cannot create himself. If you believe Satan is a being, then God *must* have created the being known as Satan.
No God did not create Satan, Satan created himself.
The prince of the power the air has many names brother, and he is known more by that which he does then by his real name.
It works in the same fashion as calling man a sinner; sinner is not the name of the man but what the man does.
We are known more by what we do then by are real names.
God did not create man a sinner, and God did not make the prince of the power the air Satan. It is what each of them did/does that makes them what they are.
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If Satan is simply "adversity" (which may well be), then what tempted man to sin? His own nature, which God created.
You guys just don’t get it; God DID NOT CREATE man with a SIN NATURE; God created man a SON OF GOD, a HOLY temple. God did NOT create our evil nature; the evil nature was created when man’s disobedience severed him from the tree of LIFE.
And all the evils in this world come from that fallen nature, NOT from God who is love.
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No matter how you try to dice it, it just doesn't fly.
If you understood it properly brother it does fly, and it flies on the wings of LOVE.
Jesus revealed God to us as a loving Father. What parent among you would do the things to their child that you guys say God does to His children?
That is correct a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit.
Example: Apple trees bring forth good apples, but if an apple falls to the ground it rots as it has been severed from the tree.
So you blame Satan.
But if man was good and holy, Satan could not have tempted them.
Is that not the same thing as saying Jesus was not good and holy? After all was He not tempted of the devil?
No God did not create Satan, Satan created himself.
The prince of the power the air has many names brother, and he is known more by that which he does then by his real name.
It works in the same fashion as calling man a sinner; sinner is not the name of the man but what the man does.
We are known more by what we do then by are real names.
God did not create man a sinner, and God did not make the prince of the power the air Satan. It is what each of them did/does that makes them what they are.
You guys just don’t get it; God DID NOT CREATE man with a SIN NATURE; God created man a SON OF GOD, a HOLY temple. God did NOT create our evil nature; the evil nature was created when man’s disobedience severed him from the tree of LIFE.
And all the evils in this world come from that fallen nature, NOT from God who is love.
If you understood it properly brother it does fly, and it flies on the wings of LOVE.
Jesus revealed God to us as a loving Father. What parent among you would do the things to their child that you guys say God does to His children?
I was at work on Friday and was sitting at the picnic table during a break with trees all around me. And I said to God if what I am seeing is correct how can I explain where or how the evil nature came about if you did not create it because the scripture tell us that a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit.
And that answer, which is really so simple, just dropped into my mind.
Glad you can see it sis, hopefully other will also.
You guys just don’t get it; God DID NOT CREATE man with a SIN NATURE; God created man a SON OF GOD, a HOLY temple. God did NOT create our evil nature; the evil nature was created when man’s disobedience severed him from the tree of LIFE.
And all the evils in this world come from that fallen nature, NOT from God who is love.
OK this is as clear as I can narrow it down to how this doesn't make sense.
You say God only creates good fruit, that man was a son of God, a HOLY temple - a good fruit.
Yet this good fruit was disobedient. This good fruit was actually bad.
OK this is as clear as I can narrow it down to how this doesn't make sense.
You say God only creates good fruit, that man was a son of God, a HOLY temple - a good fruit.
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Brother what do these scriptures say to you? For obviously they must mean something to you other then what I have been saying. So what do they mean?
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Yet this good fruit was disobedient. This good fruit was actually bad.
The disobedience spoken of in regards to Adams disobedience means a failure to hear properly or hear amiss. Failure to hear properly is not a sin, but is the prequel of sin. Adam's failure to hear properly severed him from the tree of life, which in turn cause him to fall to the earth, and just as an apple when it falls to the earth becomes rotten, Adam nature became corrupt.
That is correct a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit.
Example: Apple trees bring forth good apples, but if an apple falls to the ground it rots as it has been severed from the tree.
So you blame Satan.
But if man was good and holy, Satan could not have tempted them.
Is that not the same thing as saying Jesus was not good and holy? After all was He not tempted of the devil?
No God did not create Satan, Satan created himself.
The prince of the power the air has many names brother, and he is known more by that which he does then by his real name.
It works in the same fashion as calling man a sinner; sinner is not the name of the man but what the man does.
We are known more by what we do then by are real names.
God did not create man a sinner, and God did not make the prince of the power the air Satan. It is what each of them did/does that makes them what they are.
You guys just don’t get it; God DID NOT CREATE man with a SIN NATURE; God created man a SON OF GOD, a HOLY temple. God did NOT create our evil nature; the evil nature was created when man’s disobedience severed him from the tree of LIFE.
And all the evils in this world come from that fallen nature, NOT from God who is love.
If you understood it properly brother it does fly, and it flies on the wings of LOVE.
Jesus revealed God to us as a loving Father. What parent among you would do the things to their child that you guys say God does to His children?
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Originally Posted by .sparrow.
pneuma.. I agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
Thanks sis,
I was at work on Friday and was sitting at the picnic table during a break with trees all around me. And I said to God if what I am seeing is correct how can I explain where or how the evil nature came about if you did not create it because the scripture tell us that a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit.
And that answer, which is really so simple, just dropped into my mind.
Glad you can see it sis, hopefully other will also.
God bless
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman
OK this is as clear as I can narrow it down to how this doesn't make sense.
You say God only creates good fruit, that man was a son of God, a HOLY temple - a good fruit.
Yet this good fruit was disobedient. This good fruit was actually bad.
For me, it doesn't follow.
Happy Canada Day pneuma...
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Originally Posted by Jerwade
An apple, does not fall far from the tree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
True, but it still falls
My brothers and sisters . . . all the evil that humans do is born of ignorance and immaturity, period. We are all created self-centered by virtue of our need to survive physically in this world we have been given Dominion over. Only by growing, learning about love and maturing do we gain the knowledge to make choices for good and reject choices for evil. The choices for evil are those that ignore agape love and serve our self-centered needs without regard to their impact on any others. Our species was created immature (as all living things are) . . . so applying mature reasoning to the actions of our immature forebears is illogical.
Our species was created immature (as all living things are) . . . so applying mature reasoning to the actions of our immature forebears is illogical.
Agreed, man was not created perfect (mature) man was created a babe; and we see their baby steps in understanding all through the scriptures unto the perfect man Jesus Christ, in whom was the full knowledge of the Father.
Good to see you posting again brother.
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Is that not the same thing as saying Jesus was not good and holy? After all was He not tempted of the devil?
For me, it doesn't follow.
