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Being saved means Jesus Christ died on the Cross for our sins, so we can have everlasting life with Him. So basically being saved means being saved from Hell, and an awful eternal life.
Ok, that is what I needed clarification on. Thanks for answering.
If God created us and subjected us to futility... and then if we don't believe the proper thing before we die, and He sends us to "hell".. then basically mainstream christianity is preaching that we are being saved from GOD.
Why would a God of love allow any of his creatures that He created (human beings) be tortured forever for "finite crimes"?? Is this justice??
Have you ever pondered hell...?
Have you ever thought about why it doesn't make any sense...?
For me it does make sense. He gave us free will when He created us. While He did create us, He gave us the option to be saved and stay with Him forever, or to deny Him and be in Hell forever away from Him. To me it's quite easy and seems simple enough.
God is not only a God of love, love isn't the only thing He has. I think most people just see Him as this grandfather sitting in his rocking chair in Heaven. He has many qualities beisdes "love" for us.
OK Jamie. But your words do not match God's words. Please note:
Ro 8:12 Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. Ro 8:13 For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live,
Ro 11:22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
Heb 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
Heb 10:27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
Heb 10:28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
Heb 10:29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
Jn 15:2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.
Jn 15:6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
I love these "free will" people. (which also is not taught in scripture,neither is the "age of accountability") First they say people have free will to choose Jesus as their savior, but then after they are converted, it seems they think Christians lose their free will, like they can't decide that they no longer believe.
For me it does make sense. He gave us free will when He created us. While He did create us, He gave us the option to be saved and stay with Him forever, or to deny Him and be in Hell forever away from Him. To me it's quite easy and seems simple enough.
God is not only a God of love, love isn't the only thing He has. I think most people just see Him as this grandfather sitting in his rocking chair in Heaven. He has many qualities beisdes "love" for us.
A few things:
1. Why do you equate "love" with a grandfather sitting in his rocking chair? I don't understand the correlation. Love is the most POWERFUL thing in existence, for God *IS* Love.
Love isn't feeble or weak.
God doesn't just have love.
God *IS* Love.
I think you are confusing a force with an emotion.
2. You said:
Quote:
While He did create us, He gave us the option to be saved and stay with Him forever, or to deny Him and be in Hell forever away from Him. To me it's quite easy and seems simple enough.
He subjected us to futility and then gave us the "option" to either go to an eternal torture chamber (hell) or stay with him forever. You say it is simple and easy. I find it decidely difficult to understand why anyone would think this idea is coming from the Creator of all things.
Perfect love casts out ALL fear.
There is NO fear in LOVE.
Mainstream christianity preaches this message of ABSOLUTE fear.
Jesus is STILL being crucified to this day. All one has to do is look to those who preach the anti-christ message, the message of fear. Even so, "Father forgive them, they know not what they do.."
"Come out of her, my people..."
Do you have perfect peace over the fate of your loved ones?
What about your neighbor?
What about me... a stranger on the internet?
Do you have perfect peace? Or do you FEAR that some of us may end up in "hell"?
If you do not fear, are you then NOT loving your neighbor as yourself?
There is MUCH to ponder with the idea of a God (who IS Love) sending some or most of the beings that HE created into an eternal torture chamber. If you are not pondering and instead accepting it as "simple and easy".... something is wrong.
Love God with all of your heart, mind and soul. You cannot love anything or anyone with ALL of your heart, ALL of your mind and ALL of your soul... if you do not yet know this thing or person with ALL of your heart, ALL of your mind and ALL of your soul.
This first command was for OUR benefit. NOT for God's benefit. It is a push for us to SEARCH Him out. "Seek and you shall find"
A command for us to push ourselves into getting to KNOW Him. We will NOT know God with all of our mind, heart and soul while on this earth. But again, the command is a PUSH for us to start to peel back the layers and get to know His true character: LOVE.
Keep in mind "God is LOVE" while reading 1 Corinthians 13.
Peace to you on your journey,
sparrow
Last edited by .sparrow.; 04-02-2013 at 08:09 AM..
It could also be argued that universalists do not believe that "Christ" is limited to the life and ministry of Jesus and that is where the difference lies.
Sure. There's alot more Scripture besides the gospels.
For me it does make sense. He gave us free will when He created us. While He did create us, He gave us the option to be saved and stay with Him forever, or to deny Him and be in Hell forever away from Him. To me it's quite easy and seems simple enough.
God is not only a God of love, love isn't the only thing He has. I think most people just see Him as this grandfather sitting in his rocking chair in Heaven. He has many qualities beisdes "love" for us.
Where does it state that HaShem gave us free will?...
OK Jamie. But your words do not match God's words. Please note:
Ro 8:12 Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. Ro 8:13 For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live,
Ro 11:22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
Heb 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
Heb 10:27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
Heb 10:28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
Heb 10:29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
Jn 15:2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.
Jn 15:6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
I love these "free will" people. (which also is not taught in scripture,neither is the "age of accountability") First they say people have free will to choose Jesus as their savior, but then after they are converted, it seems they think Christians lose their free will, like they can't decide that they no longer believe.
agreed.
That is why false teaching is called gangrene. One false teaching follows another in opposition to what God's Word says.
I have yet to read where if one holds to "free will" (aka Decision theology), one will hold to some or all of these other false teachings
OSAS (which is a limited version of Universalism),
"age of accountability",
Baptism is nothing more than a sincere\ commitment bath,
Lord's Supper "represents"
Millennialism ... either no-date setter or the fantastical crystal ball soothsayer
It is implied in everything that states that we have a choice. No free will=no choice.
"Choose whom you will serve."
But since we have other scriptures, it states we do not have a choice when spiritually dead.
We can not by our own reason or strength choose for God. When left to ourselves, humanity chooses to reject God. That is why previously God told them what to choose ....
Deuteronomy 30:19 This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses.Nowchooselife, so that you and your children may live
and that was what Joshua was doing when he saying "Choose whom you will serve". He was telling them what God did earlier.
1. Why do you equate "love" with a grandfather sitting in his rocking chair? I don't understand the correlation. Love is the most POWERFUL thing in existence, for God *IS* Love.
Love isn't feeble or weak.
God doesn't just have love.
God *IS* Love.
I think you are confusing a force with an emotion.
2. You said:
He subjected us to futility and then gave us the "option" to either go to an eternal torture chamber (hell) or stay with him forever. You say it is simple and easy. I find it decidely difficult to understand why anyone would think this idea is coming from the Creator of all things.
Perfect love casts out ALL fear.
There is NO fear in LOVE.
Mainstream christianity preaches this message of ABSOLUTE fear.
Jesus is STILL being crucified to this day. All one has to do is look to those who preach the anti-christ message, the message of fear. Even so, "Father forgive them, they know not what they do.."
"Come out of her, my people..."
Do you have perfect peace over the fate of your loved ones?
What about your neighbor?
What about me... a stranger on the internet?
Do you have perfect peace? Or do you FEAR that some of us may end up in "hell"?
If you do not fear, are you then NOT loving your neighbor as yourself?
There is MUCH to ponder with the idea of a God (who IS Love) sending some or most of the beings that HE created into an eternal torture chamber. If you are not pondering and instead accepting it as "simple and easy".... something is wrong.
Love God with all of your heart, mind and soul. You cannot love anything or anyone with ALL of your heart, ALL of your mind and ALL of your soul... if you do not yet know this thing or person with ALL of your heart, ALL of your mind and ALL of your soul.
This first command was for OUR benefit. NOT for God's benefit. It is a push for us to SEARCH Him out. "Seek and you shall find"
A command for us to push ourselves into getting to KNOW Him. We will NOT know God with all of our mind, heart and soul while on this earth. But again, the command is a PUSH for us to start to peel back the layers and get to know His true character: LOVE.
Keep in mind "God is LOVE" while reading 1 Corinthians 13.
Peace to you on your journey,
sparrow
Hallo Sparrow!
You are right, God is love and it is essential for our faith to know that. He died for us at the cross. It is finished. Thats the candy you believe. I do believe also. But the scriture tells us that God is a consuming fire. Without holiness no one will see Him. Not every one that says Lord (that are believers) will enter heaven but those that do the will of the Father. Paul tells us who does certain sins will not enter the kingdom of God. Jesus warns us to better pull out our eye than go to hell. That is the other side of the coin you do not like, but is still Gods word and I could go on and on, but you will not listen because you want only the candy. God does not throw anyone into hell, he saved us from hell. But if you think and this is also true for ASOS, if we do not follow Him and do not remind in Him and this is conditional, we will be saved, that is not faith but wishful thinking, because it is not backed up by scripture. We will be judged by His word. The Father in Heaven will keep His house clean, no unclean think will enter. They overcame by the blood of the lamb and their testimony, become an overcomer.
God bless!
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agreed. 
