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View Poll Results: I believe the 1000 year reign is....
a literal 1000 year period of time to come. 44 68.75%
a literal 1000 year period of time which has already started. 2 3.13%
the spiritual reign of Christ with believers in the new dispensation in which we live. 8 12.50%
I'm not sure. 10 15.63%
Voters: 64. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-02-2007, 12:54 PM
 
3,086 posts, read 5,655,189 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sun queen View Post
Well I don't think I have given this subject much thought. HMM I find your perspective interesting. I will have to study and pray before I decide exactly where I stand. I must say though I was surely leaning toward an up and coming literal thousand year reign.
It is interesting to read up on it.. it's not a new perspective, and is interesting to note that basically from the beginning, Christians had different views on the subject: Amillennialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The wikipedia article is informative on the history, but does mistakenly cite the Anabaptists as being premillennial. Here is an article about how most of the Anabaptists believed on this: GAMEO (broken link)

Anyway, IMO it isn't an issue that affects someone's salvation... it just gives a differing view of the Kingdom of God and how it relates to your life.
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Old 11-02-2007, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Back home to Northern CA
157 posts, read 576,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
First of all, wishing everybody a wonderful day!

I did some studying on Revelation 20 this weekend, and was curious which interpretation was more prevalent among Christians here on CD.

What is your interpretation? What is the basis for your belief?

I believe that it is a spiritual reign.. we are living and reigning with Christ now.

Now before we start hurling insults about deception and inform others that if they believe differently on this subject then we do that they are not saved, let's stop right here. I do believe that a literal 1000 year reign to come is an erroneous teaching; however not necessarily tied to our salvation. I believe that the spiritual reign of Christ ties in very closely with the rest of the Bible.

What do you believe?

Hi cg81,

From my own study of Rev. 20 and other NT scripture that ties in to this topic here's what I believe: That the 1000 yr reign is literal and yet to come...

* There is a devestating earthquake and hailstorm Rev 16:18-21 & Rev. 6:14-17
* The second coming of Jesus for His righteous saints Matt. 24:30-31
* Righteous dead are raised to life 1st Thess. 4:16-17
* Righteous given immortality 1 Cor. 15:51-55
* Righteous given bodies like Jesus 1 John 3:2 & Phil. 3:21
* All righteous are caught up in the clouds 1 Thess. 4 16-17
* Living wicked are slain by the breath of the Lord's mouth Is. 11:4
* Wicked in graves remain dead until the end of the 1000 yrs Rev. 20:5
* Jesus takes righteous to heaven John 13:33,36
* Satan is bound Rev. 20:1-3

The earth is in a desolate, torn-up and darkened condition (bottomless pit) where satan is forced to stay for 1000 yrs with no one to decieve since the righteous have already been taken up to heaven. The righteous will be participating in the judgement Rev. 4:20. At the close of the 1000 yrs the new Jerusalem comes down from God out of heaven Rev. 21:2,3
Then the wicked dead are raised and satan is loosed and makes his final attempt to decieve the nation to try and take God's city Rev. 20:5,7,8
And then God ends it all when He brings the fire down from heaven to burn up satan and the wicked and then the new heavens and new earth are created Is. 65:17 2 Pet. 3:13 Rev. 21:1

If the 1000 yrs is all just spiritual I guess my question would be how would you account for many of the other things taking place during this time? Interesting thread BTW
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Old 11-02-2007, 02:22 PM
 
3,086 posts, read 5,655,189 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by debbee View Post
Hi cg81,

From my own study of Rev. 20 and other NT scripture that ties in to this topic here's what I believe: That the 1000 yr reign is literal and yet to come...

* There is a devestating earthquake and hailstorm Rev 16:18-21 & Rev. 6:14-17
* The second coming of Jesus for His righteous saints Matt. 24:30-31
* Righteous dead are raised to life 1st Thess. 4:16-17
* Righteous given immortality 1 Cor. 15:51-55
* Righteous given bodies like Jesus 1 John 3:2 & Phil. 3:21
* All righteous are caught up in the clouds 1 Thess. 4 16-17
* Living wicked are slain by the breath of the Lord's mouth Is. 11:4
* Wicked in graves remain dead until the end of the 1000 yrs Rev. 20:5
* Jesus takes righteous to heaven John 13:33,36
* Satan is bound Rev. 20:1-3

The earth is in a desolate, torn-up and darkened condition (bottomless pit) where satan is forced to stay for 1000 yrs with no one to decieve since the righteous have already been taken up to heaven. The righteous will be participating in the judgement Rev. 4:20. At the close of the 1000 yrs the new Jerusalem comes down from God out of heaven Rev. 21:2,3
Then the wicked dead are raised and satan is loosed and makes his final attempt to decieve the nation to try and take God's city Rev. 20:5,7,8
And then God ends it all when He brings the fire down from heaven to burn up satan and the wicked and then the new heavens and new earth are created Is. 65:17 2 Pet. 3:13 Rev. 21:1

If the 1000 yrs is all just spiritual I guess my question would be how would you account for many of the other things taking place during this time? Interesting thread BTW
I believe the "earthquake" and "hailstorm" are figurative.. referring to major upheavals in history. Some think they refer to the overthrowing of the Roman Empire, which persecuted the Christians, or when the Catholic Church ceased to be in control of the government.
Well, IMO basically all OT prophecy was fulfilled when Jesus came. It all pointed to Him. The references in Isaiah, to me, refer to the coming of the Messiah and the new gospel dispensation.. Isaiah is full of Messianic prophecy!

I would look at your references in this order: (maybe not exactly but pretty much happening simultaneously)
* The second coming of Jesus for His righteous saints Matt. 24:30-31
* Righteous dead are raised to life 1st Thess. 4:16-17
* Righteous given immortality 1 Cor. 15:51-55
* Righteous given bodies like Jesus 1 John 3:2 & Phil. 3:21
* All righteous are caught up in the clouds 1 Thess. 4 16-17
* Jesus takes righteous to heaven John 13:33,36

I referred to the "wicked dead" earlier, but these are those who have not partaken of the "first resurrection" (being born again) and are not spiritually alive. At the end of the 1000 years all will be made physically alive and judged.

I also referred to "Satan bound":
Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
I believe this angel is Jesus, who came down to save us from the curse of sin. His gift of salvation “stomped on Satan’s head” and overthrew the monopoly Satan had over our souls.. if Christ had not come, Satan would have “free reign”, with no hope for our souls.
Basically, after Adam and Eve fell, a Redeemer was promised. This is what this is talking about...the fulfillment of the promise. Before this, there was no hope for nations other than the Israelite people.. Satan had complete control over their destiny. He also would have had complete control over our souls.. if Christ had not come. This was all a result of the deception which resulted in Adam and Eve disobeying God, and resulted in the fall of man. So what this is saying is that this hold was broken.
The power of the gospel speaks to people's souls... and if they respond, they can overcome the wicked one. Satan's evil plan has been overthrown by making a remedy available.
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Old 11-07-2007, 07:26 PM
 
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I believe that The 1000 year reign will begin in the later part of the year 2012, the three and one half year tribulatuion will begin in November of 2008 and there will be no rapture and I have the scriptures to prove it
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Old 11-08-2007, 05:53 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 3,090,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dojilynn View Post
Well, cg81, I've always been taught that it is a literal reign and that it is in the future. It has never occured to me that it could be currently happening. Now that you mention it, it doesn't make any sense to me because I am wondering how we could be considered as "reigning" anything? No offense, I'm genuinely curious. I see a world that is increasingly hostile to Christians and their theology, so I'm not seeing how we are currently reigning with Christ.

Can you explain this?
It is not a problem if one remembers that Christ's kingdom is not of this world! It is in that kingdom that Christ now reigns not on this earth.

Preterist
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Old 11-08-2007, 05:57 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 3,090,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharingthetruth View Post
I believe that The 1000 year reign will begin in the later part of the year 2012, the three and one half year tribulatuion will begin in November of 2008 and there will be no rapture and I have the scriptures to prove it
sharingthetruth: The tribulation occurred in A.D. 66 to A.D. 70. It was to be endured by those saints of Jesus' generation (see Matthew 24). It was a time of His vindication against the Jews of Matthew 23 who were guilty of all the righteous blood shed on the earth. They killed all the prophets sent to them and His chosen ones--they were judged by God through the Roman armies in A.D. 70. Hundreds of thousands died and more were taken into captivity. The temple was forever destroyed and the Old Covenant nation was forever enslaved throughout the nations.

Preterist
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Old 11-08-2007, 06:01 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 3,090,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
Exactly. One thing I think we can all agree on is that we are definitely living in the last days!
cg81: I don't agree. We are not living in the last days. The last days took place prior to A.D. 70. They refer to the last days of the Mosaic economy and not the last days of the earth. Even the writer of Hebrews said, "hath in THESE last days, spoken to us through His Son."

Preterist
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Old 11-08-2007, 06:05 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 3,090,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by debbee View Post
Hi cg81,

From my own study of Rev. 20 and other NT scripture that ties in to this topic here's what I believe: That the 1000 yr reign is literal and yet to come...

* There is a devestating earthquake and hailstorm Rev 16:18-21 & Rev. 6:14-17
* The second coming of Jesus for His righteous saints Matt. 24:30-31
* Righteous dead are raised to life 1st Thess. 4:16-17
* Righteous given immortality 1 Cor. 15:51-55
* Righteous given bodies like Jesus 1 John 3:2 & Phil. 3:21
* All righteous are caught up in the clouds 1 Thess. 4 16-17
* Living wicked are slain by the breath of the Lord's mouth Is. 11:4
* Wicked in graves remain dead until the end of the 1000 yrs Rev. 20:5
* Jesus takes righteous to heaven John 13:33,36
* Satan is bound Rev. 20:1-3

The earth is in a desolate, torn-up and darkened condition (bottomless pit) where satan is forced to stay for 1000 yrs with no one to decieve since the righteous have already been taken up to heaven. The righteous will be participating in the judgement Rev. 4:20. At the close of the 1000 yrs the new Jerusalem comes down from God out of heaven Rev. 21:2,3
Then the wicked dead are raised and satan is loosed and makes his final attempt to decieve the nation to try and take God's city Rev. 20:5,7,8
And then God ends it all when He brings the fire down from heaven to burn up satan and the wicked and then the new heavens and new earth are created Is. 65:17 2 Pet. 3:13 Rev. 21:1

If the 1000 yrs is all just spiritual I guess my question would be how would you account for many of the other things taking place during this time? Interesting thread BTW
debbee: Have you consider the time restraints placed upon the book of Revelation in both the first and last chapters?

John was to be shown those things which were in his day to "SHORTLY take place" becaue the "time was AT HAND." The book of Revelation, then, must be seen in that time reference. It involves historical events (A.D. 66-70) and not event still future to us.

Preterist
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Old 11-09-2007, 06:22 AM
 
Location: ARK-KIN-SAW
3,434 posts, read 8,930,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Preterist View Post
sharingthetruth: The tribulation occurred in A.D. 66 to A.D. 70. It was to be endured by those saints of Jesus' generation (see Matthew 24). It was a time of His vindication against the Jews of Matthew 23 who were guilty of all the righteous blood shed on the earth. They killed all the prophets sent to them and His chosen ones--they were judged by God through the Roman armies in A.D. 70. Hundreds of thousands died and more were taken into captivity. The temple was forever destroyed and the Old Covenant nation was forever enslaved throughout the nations.

Preterist
Here's the problem with Preterism. Revelation 16:12 states that at the time of Armageddon, the Great River Euphrates will be dried up to make way for the Kings of the East to come down against Israel for the Battle of Armageddon (verse 16).

Preterists say that the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD was this Battle of Armageddon. Big problem: the Euphrates did not dry up. In 70 A.D. the troops who were to destroy Jerusalem at Armageddon, were to be kings of the East. However, the Romans destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D. from the West not from the East.

Where do they come up with their arguments? This doctrine was founded by the Jesuits back in the time of the Reformation. The The Reformers were preaching from Revelation 17 that Mystery Babylon was Rome. So the church was hemorrhaging bad. The Protestants were breaking off like crazy so the Jesuits had to stop this and explain that this was not Rome so they made up this doctrine of Preterism. So that's what the doctrine of Preterism came from. Today some have unwittingly bought into it because of a lack of breadth in their knowledge of biblical prophecy. (Mentioning that Jesuits invented it is not part of the argument for why it's false, just a detail. They originated Futurism too).
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Old 11-09-2007, 07:11 AM
 
1,897 posts, read 3,090,434 times
Reputation: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by arguy1973 View Post
Here's the problem with Preterism. Revelation 16:12 states that at the time of Armageddon, the Great River Euphrates will be dried up to make way for the Kings of the East to come down against Israel for the Battle of Armageddon (verse 16).

Preterists say that the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD was this Battle of Armageddon. Big problem: the Euphrates did not dry up. In 70 A.D. the troops who were to destroy Jerusalem at Armageddon, were to be kings of the East. However, the Romans destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D. from the West not from the East.

Where do they come up with their arguments? This doctrine was founded by the Jesuits back in the time of the Reformation. The The Reformers were preaching from Revelation 17 that Mystery Babylon was Rome. So the church was hemorrhaging bad. The Protestants were breaking off like crazy so the Jesuits had to stop this and explain that this was not Rome so they made up this doctrine of Preterism. So that's what the doctrine of Preterism came from. Today some have unwittingly bought into it because of a lack of breadth in their knowledge of biblical prophecy. (Mentioning that Jesuits invented it is not part of the argument for why it's false, just a detail. They originated Futurism too).
Personally, I am SICK AND TIRED of this false and parroted accusation concerning the origin of preterism. Preterism comes from the Bible not from Jesuit priests! Is preterism made up? Yes! By Jesus!

"This generation will by no means pass away till ALL these things take place" (Matthew 24:34).

"YOU [the Twelve] will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes" (Matthew 10:23).

"There are some standing here who will not taste death till THEY see the Son of Man COMING in His kingdom" (Matthew 16:28).

"YOU [Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin] will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of power and COMING on the clouds of heaven" (Matthew 26:64).

"The COMING of the Lord is AT HAND" (James 5:8).

"The end of all things is AT HAND" (1 Peter 4:7).

John was shown the things which were in his day to "SHORTLY take place"--the time was NEAR! All of the events of the book of Revelation are sandwiched in between these two very clear time restraints given in chapter 1 and chapter 22! (This includes chapter 17 and Babylon)!

There are many more. These time statements must be dealt with!

Preterist
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