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My wife and I had premarital sex and we have had 43 years of a wonderful marriage.
Both of our children had premarital sex and their marriages (16 and 9 years) are doing very well, with two kids each.
In fact we even encouraged our kids to live with their prospective marriage partners. Our daughter later married the guy.
Our son, however, decided to not marry the girl he was living with, but later got very, very lucky when a gorgeous young lady picked him up at a bar. They got engaged 10 months later, bought a house together, moved in, and were married a year after the engagement.
In case you didn't read, I will restate it again. I am not saying that engaging in premarital sex ruins your chances for a happy life forever. I've already said that there is nothing you can't overcome with sheer grit and determination. God makes that even more possible but since I know you don't believe in God, I won't harp on that too much. Everyone makes of their lives what they want. If two former porn stars marry and are absolutely determined to have a successful marriage, they will.
I'm saying that, according to every study I've ever found on the topic, you're chances of having a happy life, marriage, etc increase when you abstain from premarital sex.
Let's put it this way. Let's say I decide from a young age to never touch alcohol.It also doesn't mean that I won't eventually give into social pressures and start drinking anyways. But if I manage to succeed in never imbibing in alcohol, a whole lot of bad outcomes disappear. I will never become an alcoholic. I will never wake up in bed with a woman I don't recognize. I will never pass out in a pile of my own vomit. The chances of me coming home and in a drunken rage, beat the living crap out of my wife becomes zero. That doesn't mean that everyone who has a drink now and then will inevitably become an alcoholic, wife beater or experience any of those things. They might. Their chances for those bad outcomes are greater than 0% because they imbibe alcohol. But it's not inevitable.
What the studies have found is that abstinence improves your odds for good outcomes while decreasing or eliminating your certain bad outcomes. A young man and young woman who manage to both abstain until marriage and then marry each other will never experience STD's or unmarried pregnancy. And they increase their chances for a whole host of good outcomes. So rather than poking fun of them for being prudes or missing out on life, we should congratulate them for it. Case in point, at one point when I was in High School, I was too ashamed to admit that I was still a virgin. What the hell kind of world shames people for being a virgin???
He does not seem to understand the difference between critisizing the methodology and disputing the results. If you do not think the methodology is proper he wants you to find a study with different results.
It also does not address the question of if pre marriatal sex leads to marriage break down or if people inclined to instability are more likely to be involved in premarital sex. I read a report that arranged marriages last longer than non arranged marriages hence does culture or family pressures and other factors need to be added into any study on cause and effect of sex before marriage? I would much perfer to find my own mate than have an arranged but stable one. In my opinion happiness for both partners in a marriage is much more important than how long they last. An unhappy marriage may not be the best place to raise children.
The only marriage I am interested is in our own and it will be hitting the big four O this year.
It's not the methodology that I am arguing for, I'm arguing for the conclusion which has been substantiated in other studies, which is why I am asking does anyone believe this is not true. Are you arguing that the methodology doesn't provide a real conclusion or just that the methodology is flawed?
I only addressed the design of the study. I do not need to find statistics, to support or disprove a study that has no credible methodology behind it. Stuff like that gets you a big old F on the paper, and your grants will dry up.
Clearly you have not read the entire study with the cute baby on the cover.
That's a lie. You attacked the conclusion of the study by stating why you don't agree with it. It's clearly more than the methodology that you have an issue with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonkonkomaNative
Ps- I do not think women need to be married to have children. We do not need your permission. We only need your sperm. Women have been raising their children without a partner for centuries. As long as the woman is not forced into having children she does not want, I see no issue.
Above are two articles showing why studies on the subject may reflect both a bias in the structure of the study and what the results mean.
And a google seach for the topic ends up with pages from religous organizations so not that easy to find and I am not that interested in finding any studies. Personally I would not be surprised if a proper study found zero effect.
A flawed study is as useful as no study at all.
You aren't understanding, I'm not defending the study, I'm defending the conclusion that has been made. As others have stated it supports what we as Christians have been taught as the best way to maintain a relationship. If the poster that you are defending would have stated the study is flawed, then the conversation would have ended there, but the poster then went on to state why she disagreed with the conclusion and so I am questioning her reasoning for disagreeing with the conclusion. Is that not clear? If you are just disagree with the methodology then why not be neutral?
He does not seem to understand the difference between critisizing the methodology and disputing the results. If you do not think the methodology is proper he wants you to find a study with different results.
It also does not address the question of if pre marriatal sex leads to marriage break down or if people inclined to instability are more likely to be involved in premarital sex. I read a report that arranged marriages last longer than non arranged marriages hence does culture or family pressures and other factors need to be added into any study on cause and effect of sex before marriage? I would much perfer to find my own mate than have an arranged but stable one. In my opinion happiness for both partners in a marriage is much more important than how long they last. An unhappy marriage may not be the best place to raise children.
The only marriage I am interested is in our own and it will be hitting the big four O this year.
That's exactly what I'm getting at, thank you. I'm more than happy to make this a discussion. If people have something other than personal opinions to offer up as rebuttal, or if somebody has a better study then great! Let's hear it!
I'm emotionally invested in abstinence because I did it. I waited. So it's only natural that I want to believe that the way I did it works best. But just offering up myself as an example doesn't work. My wife and I are just one marriage among hundreds of millions. The only credible studies I've seen agree with my point of view. I gotta admit, I'm kind of surprised that nobody has found anything demonstrating that premarital sex is a good idea. I kind of expected that'd happen and it hasn't. I'd be happy to find better studies, but I don't have a ton of time to focus on this. Life is busy right now.
He does not seem to understand the difference between critisizing the methodology and disputing the results. If you do not think the methodology is proper he wants you to find a study with different results.
It also does not address the question of if pre marriatal sex leads to marriage break down or if people inclined to instability are more likely to be involved in premarital sex. I read a report that arranged marriages last longer than non arranged marriages hence does culture or family pressures and other factors need to be added into any study on cause and effect of sex before marriage? I would much perfer to find my own mate than have an arranged but stable one. In my opinion happiness for both partners in a marriage is much more important than how long they last. An unhappy marriage may not be the best place to raise children.
The only marriage I am interested is in our own and it will be hitting the big four O this year.
This poster has already stated that we men are not needed to raise a child and that we are only needed to provide sperm but then when I asked this poster if she would tell her own son(s) that she avoided the question. Why would you defend someone with that kind of integrity? Why should anybody take her serious?
That's a lie. You attacked the conclusion of the study by stating why you don't agree with it. It's clearly more than the methodology that you have an issue with.
My opinion does not enter into this. I stand by my opinions. I also understand my opinions are not science. Your opinions are not science.
This study, placed before us, is not science, and the research is flawed. You clearly have not read it thoroughly, or do not understand how to evaluate the information.
If the results were in line with my opinion, the study would still be garbage, and I would give it an F if it ever crossed my desk.
This poster has already stated that we men are not needed to raise a child and that we are only needed to provide sperm but then when I asked this poster if she would tell her own son(s) that she avoided the question. Why would you defend someone with that kind of integrity? Why should anybody take her serious?
I have answered your question about my children. You choose to either not read, or disregard.
Do not cast aspersions on my integrity, Grasshopper.
It's not the methodology that I am arguing for, I'm arguing for the conclusion which has been substantiated in other studies, which is why I am asking does anyone believe this is not true. Are you arguing that the methodology doesn't provide a real conclusion or just that the methodology is flawed?
I have no idea what the "real" conclusion is. There are major problems with how both the studies I could find mentioned were conducted. There is also problems with the conclusions based on the results, as in what were the reasons for the decreased unhappiness in one group over the other. In doing the search there was also an article that only 3% of Americans do not have sex before marriage hence the majority of sucessful and unsucessful marriges had one or both partners having sex before marriage.
As your are asking us for our personal opinions, which is important, mine is that once you eliminate all the other factors there is probably no statistically significant difference between the two groups. But that is just an opinion. I also think whatever the results of a properly conducted study concluded the fact that you may or may not have a happier marraige if you do or don't are not strong arguements to convince young people to have or not have sex.
If the methodology is flawed than the entire study should be disregarded as neither right nor wrong.
I have answered your question about my children. You choose to either not read, or disregard.
Do not cast aspersions on my integrity, Grasshopper.
I didn't ask you how you taught your sons biology. I asked, specifically do you tell your sons that they are not needed besides just giving sperm for their children to be conceived? Yes or No?
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