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You wouldn't look sideways at a guy who only hangs out with other guys? Who never married? Never (apparently) had a girlfriend? Unless you believe the hints that he was boinking Mary Magdalene.
Personally, I think it unlikely he was having it off with Mary. He just wanted to hang with the guys.
You like basketball... look up AC Green and abstinence.
and i suppose you know all of them by name, right? i guess you can walk down the street and pick out those who are terrorizing gay people and making their lives miserable, right?
I can when they speak.
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Originally Posted by urbanlemur
first you make a blanket assessment of all fundamentalists "zero" and then you say "many"...so what is it? i have some Christian friends who fall into the category you mentioned but i also have friends who are friendly and treat gay people with respect, whether they work with them or are in a circle of friends or maybe even a family member. i guess you missed my post about my work in the homeless shelter so maybe you should go and read that to get a little better assessment of me before you consider placing me in the first category.
I said, and I quote, "I have seen exactly ZERO fundamentalists that are trying to "meet in the middle". Notice the word "I" in that sentence. Maybe YOU should go back and read to get a little better assessment of me...
As for the rest of your post, being friendly with a gay person is not "meeting in the middle". It is basic human dignity. If you go up to a gay person, and you are friendly with them, and then turn around and say they shouldn't be able to get married or shop where they please, you are not "meeting in the middle". As for your homeless shelter point.... So what? Working with people doesn't mean anything. There are plenty of white racists who work with black people with no issue.
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Originally Posted by urbanlemur
sadly, there are some Christians who go out of their way to make life difficult for gay people but they are in the small minority. i'll think you'll find that most Christians are not like that but see the gay population just as they see everyone else: sinners in need of repentance and salvation that comes only through the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ.
That is perfectly fine, and not the issue. The issue is when you come into the public sphere and try to deny them the right to marry, and the right to be served. If you want to see them as sinners in need of repentance, great. If you want to deny them basic rights, then we have an issue. That is what fundamentalists do. And yes, I will make that blanket statement unless you can find me a true fundamentalist that doesn't think that way.
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Originally Posted by urbanlemur
when i say "meet in the middle", i mean for us to agree to disagree. i may disagree with homosexuality but i still see them as human beings who live and work and are in need of Jesus just like everyone else. on the part of the gay person, i would like to see them have the same attitude toward Christians.
Agreeing to disagree is not the same thing as what fundamentalist do though. You are free to disagree with whatever you want. Don't like seafood? Great, we can agree to disagree. Want to treat gay people like second class citizens not worthy of the same rights as everyone else? No, they (and those who side with them) are not going to "agree to disagree" and let you take away their ability to be served or keep them from get married. Not gonna happen.
If you truly would "agree to disagree", then you would grant them their marriages and serve them their cake, and move on. That isn't what you guys do though, is it?
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Originally Posted by urbanlemur
however, we will never "meet in the middle" as long as there are people from both sides who do nothing but condemn one another for their words and actions. that gains us nothing but ill will and an unrighteous attitude toward one another. that's what i mean by "meeting in the middle" but i guess that's too hard for some people and that's to be expected, especially in today's culture where hate is the rule rather than the exception (which should never be considered acceptable in any way, shape or form)
Oh, I agree. The problem is, one side isn't willing to do so. If fundamentalists (notice I am not saying Christians, but fundamentalists specifically) wouldn't try to deny rights and treat people differently based off of their sexual orientation, there would be no issue. The issue is from the side of religion, and not that of gay people. Do you not understand that? Really?
You are expecting gay people and free thinkers to just let you guys run all over them and sit down and shut up. That isn't going to happen. If you want people to meet in the middle, then you got to meet them there, not expect them to cross the line and give up their own rights and forget their own issues.
Matthew 9:4 "but Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, “Why do you think evil in your hearts?" that question still remains to be answered, especially here today...
Where is the evil in my thought? That Jesus might be gay? You think that's evil?
You're further down the fundie rabbit hole than many.
You are expecting gay people and free thinkers to just let you guys run all over them and sit down and shut up. That isn't going to happen. If you want people to meet in the middle, then you got to meet them there, not expect them to cross the line and give up their own rights and forget their own issues.
This is where the disconnect is. Most Christians really don't expect anything from gay people. We just want to live our lives and get on with life. I'm not sure who these folks are that you guys keep whining about wanting to abuse, mistreat, and expect gay people to conform to their wishes. I just don't know anyone like that.
This is where the disconnect is. Most Christians really don't expect anything from gay people. We just want to live our lives and get on with life. I'm not sure who these folks are that you guys keep whining about wanting to abuse, mistreat, and expect gay people to conform to their wishes. I just don't know anyone like that.
Try standing in front of a mirror with your eyes open.
This is where the disconnect is. Most Christians really don't expect anything from gay people. We just want to live our lives and get on with life. I'm not sure who these folks are that you guys keep whining about wanting to abuse, mistreat, and expect gay people to conform to their wishes. I just don't know anyone like that.
Kim Davis. She used her position to have her entire department refuse to offer a government service to gays and lesbians. The bakers in Oregon who not only called his customer an abomination but took to social media to mock and insult the lesbian couple. The pastors and religious speakers who call for the imprisonment or death for gays. Those that fought so hard to keep SSM illegal for all.
You dont need to know the people personally for it to exist. Listen to the problems that LBGT folks claim they experience from religious folks. It's like saying nobody is an antisemitic if you do not know of one, or a racist. It's easier for those who not part of the party on the receiving end of hatred, discrimination or abuse to see it than those who are never the victims.
Kim Davis. She used her position to have her entire department refuse to offer a government service to gays and lesbians. The bakers in Oregon who not only called his customer an abomination but took to social media to mock and insult the lesbian couple. The pastors and religious speakers who call for the imprisonment or death for gays. Those that fought so hard to keep SSM illegal for all.
You dont need to know the people personally for it to exist. Listen to the problems that LBGT folks claim they experience from religious folks. It's like saying nobody is an antisemitic if you do not know of one, or a racist. It's easier for those who not part of the party on the receiving end of hatred, discrimination or abuse to see it than those who are never the victims.
Kim Davis. She used her position to have her entire department refuse to offer a government service to gays and lesbians.
Kim Davis was wrong. I said it then, I'll say it now. She was an elected official that refused to do the duties of her position. She should have resigned if she could not do her duty.
Having said that, she hardly represents all Christians.
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The bakers in Oregon who not only called his customer an abomination but took to social media to mock and insult the lesbian couple.
The ones that the Supreme Court has stated did not have to violate their consciences by creating a product that they could not do in good will? He had served gay people before, and he had no issue serving gay people.
How about the couple that tried to destroy his business because he refused to bow to THEIR will? You don't fault them for it?
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The pastors and religious speakers who call for the imprisonment or death for gays. Those that fought so hard to keep SSM illegal for all.
They are wrong to do so and I will call them out every time I see them. I've never met one. Oh, sure--I've seen the random post on here of some wingnut saying it. Congrats...out of a country of 320 million you can find a wingnut.
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You dont need to know the people personally for it to exist. Listen to the problems that LBGT folks claim they experience from religious folks. It's like saying nobody is an antisemitic if you do not know of one, or a racist. It's easier for those who not part of the party on the receiving end of hatred, discrimination or abuse to see it than those who are never the victims.
What do you want me to actually DO about it if I don't encounter it?
Will you call out the lesbian couple seeking to destroy a man's business simply because he disagrees? Or is hate ok if it goes the correct direction?
Where is the evil in my thought? That Jesus might be gay? You think that's evil?
You're further down the fundie rabbit hole than many.
i sure do and one day you will have to tell Him yourself when you stand before Him to answer for your life....just like everyone else
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