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no, telling people that God hates sin of any kind (Biblical) while providing a way for repentance and eternal salvation through Jesus Christ (Biblical) is love. however, that message keeps falling on deaf ears here which saddens me.
There is so much wrong and misleading about this that my mind is going too many directions at once as I try to form a reply. Let me try to focus in on the topic of this thread only....
The topic of this thread isn’t about what’s wrong with a generic message of “repent or else”. What it’s about is that in the face of many excellent reasons to, at the very least, consider the possibility that you might be wrong about your belief that homosexuality, specifically, is a sin, some Christians insist on calling it out as if they know it is without a shadow of doubt. Given that you can show no harm being done in a consensual commited same sex relationship — other than your highly disputable belief that God doesn’t like it for some unfathomable reason — why do you insist on trying to usurp the role of the Holy Spirit in the lives of others by trying to convict them of [something you only think is a] sin?
The topic of this thread is trying to understand WHY this one particular group of people is the favorite target for so many flaming arrows from a certain subsect of Christians.
no, telling people that God hates sin of any kind (Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God") while providing a way for repentance and eternal salvation through Jesus Christ (Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord") is love. however, that message keeps falling on deaf ears here which concerns and saddens me.
What concerns and saddens me, and most of the people on the planet, are people who think the tripe you just parroted is true.
no, telling people that God hates sin of any kind (Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God") while providing a way for repentance and eternal salvation through Jesus Christ (Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord") is love. however, that message keeps falling on deaf ears here which concerns and saddens me.
Pleroo did a good job of responding thoughtfully to this post.
I want to add that what you say above is where everything gets caught in the drain and clogs the pipes. Your "message" that "keeps falling on deaf ears" is contained within the presumption that the subset of people who we now know in this day and age are born with an attraction to people of their same sex (or both sexes) are somehow "sinful" or worse, as some of you are so bold to say, "abominations".
That way of thinking is biblical, but not Christlike. It's purely human, a way to point fingers and condemn and separate us into usses and thems. Telling God's children they are sinful and/or abominations is not love at all.
It concerns and saddens many of us that you don't allow yourself to think beyond following the rules in a book written by men who dwelled in a specific time and culture when procreation and strengthening of the tribe was the primary objective and so to whom the idea that some people are otherwise sexually attracted was a completely foreign concept.
We know differently now. We see real live people who aren't just a "them" hurting because people have used words to marginalize them, and what's sadder, is the people who flung those words actually thought that they were doing the right thing. Those of us who belong to non-fundamentalist Christian communities know that many of these people want to belong to a church community, but they are not welcome in so many of them unless they pretend they are someone they aren't.
No one expects that you are going to see the light overnight because of what you read on a message board, but one small step to take would be to acknowledge that it is your position that what the Bible says has the ultimate authority instead of stating it as if fundamentalism is a fact.
Many people on here, including Pleroo, were once fundamentalists. They dared to allow themselves to think what it was forbidden to think--that maybe the Bible is the work of men about God, and not the literal Word of God. Can you dare to allow yourself to at least wonder about it and maybe see that in many cases, "Love one another" trumps the written rules of men?
God of heaven is not of chaos but of order ,not of lies but truth .
What of that can you not understand ?
God is not bound to what you want Him to think but what He is and how He thinks .
People Christians included often make determinations based on what they have been taught, not by God but by men.
It has always been this way . and Jesus came and made things different .Being God in the flesh provided those that "obey Him the Holy spirit" so that they can know God's will and obey Him on a real time basis, making no assumptions according to what other men say or think. even men of scriptures .
If you are among those the use scriptures looking for excuses , though you find them, your still walking in the flesh serving the flesh, not serving God.
God's judgment rests on those that choose against Him ,even though they may wear His name for their own means. Matthew 7;21,22,23, God is not fooled in spite of false words (lies)
so far as any sin listed in scriptures , let me nail this down simply .
Actions outside Gods direct instruction is sin, scriptures or not.
I still have the power to govern my self, but I choose to seek God's influence, because,
1. He is God and deserves respect .
2. He designed this world and knows best what makes it tick . Those that abuse His design, reinforce their rebellion.
3. by complying with His wishes my life has meaning and the actions taken have value to Him .
4. He looks out for me and we have dialog
5 He teaches me things not written in scriptures or any other books for that matter.
6. by developing a relationship of trust, I have value .
Like I said in the beginning, God is going to judge on the basis of what He thinks , not what you want Him to think .
Pleroo did a good job of responding thoughtfully to this post.
I want to add that what you say above is where everything gets caught in the drain and clogs the pipes. Your "message" that "keeps falling on deaf ears" is contained within the presumption that the subset of people who we now know in this day and age are born with an attraction to people of their same sex (or both sexes) are somehow "sinful" or worse, as some of you are so bold to say, "abominations".
That way of thinking is biblical, but not Christlike. It's purely human, a way to point fingers and condemn and separate us into usses and thems. Telling God's children they are sinful and/or abominations is not love at all.
It concerns and saddens many of us that you don't allow yourself to think beyond following the rules in a book written by men who dwelled in a specific time and culture when procreation and strengthening of the tribe was the primary objective and so to whom the idea that some people are otherwise sexually attracted was a completely foreign concept.
We know differently now. We see real live people who aren't just a "them" hurting because people have used words to marginalize them, and what's sadder, is the people who flung those words actually thought that they were doing the right thing. Those of us who belong to non-fundamentalist Christian communities know that many of these people want to belong to a church community, but they are not welcome in so many of them unless they pretend they are someone they aren't.
No one expects that you are going to see the light overnight because of what you read on a message board, but one small step to take would be to acknowledge that it is your position that what the Bible says has the ultimate authority instead of stating it as if fundamentalism is a fact.
Many people on here, including Pleroo, were once fundamentalists. They dared to allow themselves to think what it was forbidden to think--that maybe the Bible is the work of men about God, and not the literal Word of God. Can you dare to allow yourself to at least wonder about it and maybe see that in many cases, "Love one another" trumps the written rules of men?
God says that He loves everyone enough that He sent His Son to die for us. however, to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior means that you have to do so on His terms according to His Word, not what the world says is acceptable. "Love one another" trumps the written rules of men" signifies that you believe that men wrote the Bible on their terms whereas i believe the scholars wrote Scripture according to the inspiration set forth by God unto those who chronicled everything contained therein. if you don't believe in the inspiration, inerrancy and infalliability of God and His Word, then you will ultimately will accept changes in the Word (despite God's warning against doing so) to lessen or completely do away with the severity of sin and the price paid for engaging in it. i am not going to change my stance on this or any other issue regarding Scripture so i guess i'll remain a bigot and a hater to those of the world who disagree with me. all i can do is preach the Word as set forth in the Bible and pray that God will open eyes and hearts to accept it....the responsibility to hear and accept God on His terms is theirs.
Polycarp, Phil. 5:3 Similarly, the younger men must be blameless in all things; they should be concerned about purity above all, reining themselves away from all evil. For it is good to be cut off from the sinful desires in the world, because every sinful desire wages war against the Spirit, and neither fornicators nor men who have sex with men (whether as the passive or as the active partner - οὔτε μαλακοὶ οὔτε ἀρσενοκοῖται) will inherit the kingdom of God, nor will those who do perverse things. Therefore one must keep away from all these things and be obedient to the presbyters and deacons as to God and Christ. The young women must maintain a pure and blameless conscience.
Man cannot comprehend the existence of error; when too deeply immersed in it.
The errror to me Jer, is not what these fundies think is a sin or not a sin, but their refusal to see that if you have the plank removed from your own eye, the speck of dust you thought was in your brothers eye wasn't really there. You then see God in your brothers eye not assumed sin that you think you have the right to judge and condemn.
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