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Well, lets break it down, she asked you is it an offense that sends you to hell, you said in response, dishonoring God does not send you to hell. Are you meaning by dishonoring, that homosexuality is an offense to God that will not send you to hell?, because it certainly sounds you are saying something like that, it sounds like you think that but will not come out directly and say it.
Which is the point he keeps dancing around. Maybe I am not wording things correctly, and I usually type very fast on my phone, so sometimes my points don't make it across correctly, or they make it across, but seem very.... blunt. I have apologized for that in the past, so maybe that is what's going on here. Seems like he just doesn't want to come out and say what it sounds like he actually means.
Whether he admits it out loud or not, a fundie would not be a fundie if he believed practicing homosexuals escaped eternal toasting by their god-thing.
Abominations get toasted - period.
Right? I think he is just tap dancing around that by saying that only God knows. What I believe he really means, is that gay people don't go to hell, as long as they don't do anything gay... Do anything gay, and God will judge them unworthy. Maybe I am wrong though. Who knows.
So being gay is not an offense punishable by hell? Dishonoring God is not an offense punishable by hell either? So what exactly is?
And what is your issue with homosexuality then? Because you CLEARLY have an an issue with it, and continue to post in thread with homosexuality as the topic. You continue to say that anyone who believes in equal rights and representation is pushing the "gay agenda". If you truly believed that gay people were equal, and should have all equal rights, and were no worse than any other sinner, you wouldn't see this as an "agenda".
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Originally Posted by TroutDude
Whether he admits it out loud or not, a fundie would not be a fundie if he believed practicing homosexuals escaped eternal toasting by their god-thing.
Abominations get toasted - period.
I am from a very conservative Christian evangelical background. Never called myself fundamentalist even tho some would think I am. Fundamentalists were the ones with very strict codes for holiness.... Women wear dresses, no make up, men no facial hair or hair on the collar, no movies, no rock music, etc, etc.
I think the issue most evangelicals have (which I have held but am abandoning) is that the handful of verses from Leviticus and then Paul's couple of mentionings of homosexuality.... That it is one thing to sin and call that sin a sin and be sorry for it and admit it is sin juxtaposed with what they see is taking a certain"sin" as an identity and then wanting everyone to be ok with that.
It took me walking with a college buddy through the hell of being outed and fired from his Christian school to six months in an ex gay boot camp in Kentucky and seeing the hell he was putting himself thru to be right before God... and then his self acceptance before God that he couldn't change himself... and all the subsequent chats and life experiences that a 30 year friendship entail that can't be nutshelled here.... for me to realize that he was OK before God with who he was and who was I to tell him differently. Nothing argued here by those on the side saying it is abomination or dishonoring or sin or whatever the group is that are arguing against gays..... nothing said is anything that my friend hasn't heard over and over and beat himself up with for years and years and years. And it did nothing. Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
And I have in this friend a true born again believer that would deny himself and come rescue me if I were ever in any dire circumstance, he would get there before anyone else. He is the epitome of a man of God. Loves the Lord with every fiber of who he is. And, he is still attracted to men.
Who am I to tell him... who has been in the trenches and wrestled with himself and God to the point of gut wrenching pain to tell him he is dishonoring God? The Holy Spirit and the Word of God.... if they can't do it to him, who am I? Who are any of you?
All I can do is point him to Jesus. Funny thing is, I can tell you he has probably pointed me to Jesus many more times than I to him.
Give this doctrine to God and love a gay man or woman. Love them like Jesus loved. And let God sort them out. He doesn't need you.
Somewhere here I switched to replying to the two I copied and turned to preaching to my fellow conservative evangelicals. I hope you folks can figure that out lol.
Last edited by Saintmarks; 05-09-2019 at 05:03 PM..
Right? I think he is just tap dancing around that by saying that only God knows. What I believe he really means, is that gay people don't go to hell, as long as they don't do anything gay... Do anything gay, and God will judge them unworthy. Maybe I am wrong though. Who knows.
You nailed it, again. He believes that same sex marriage and any activity associated with that is an abomination which subjects those involved to eternal separation (i.e., he also avoids committing himself to that of eternal punishment, torment or damnation), so, yes, he believes they will be judged unworthy of salvation - if they do not abstain or repent for the rest of their lives.
Do not let him convince you otherwise. It's a game that he plays, while acting ignorant. I have an ex son-in-law who is narcissistic who does the same thing. What it merely boils down to is that of manipulating and lying to others - making them believe it's their fault, when it isn't. He is deceptive and will falsely accuse you of doing that which he does himself.
Fine post. You're too empathetic to be a true fundie. But keep trying, if you must.
If you believe your god is capital-G-worthy and the Creator - you must also believe he doesn't make broken things.
We are all part of All.
I'm fundie in that I will always hold to the bible as inspired and literal and the truth. But I read the whole and not snippets and the more I let the whole of scripture marinate in me, the more I cannot be anti-gay. Jesus wasn't. He just wasn't. He did not condemn anyone the way gays have been condemned by those on this page. It is antithetical in fact to the very core of who Jesus is revealed in the scripture.
He did condemn some. Those in the religious house of the day that condemned people and made them feel unworthy of coming to God.
I'm fundie in that I will always hold to the bible as inspired and literal and the truth. But I read the whole and not snippets and the more I let the whole of scripture marinate in me, the more I cannot be anti-gay. Jesus wasn't. He just wasn't. He did not condemn anyone the way gays have been condemned by those on this page. It is antithetical in fact to the very core of who Jesus is revealed in the scripture.
He did condemn some. Those in the religious house of the day that condemned people and made them feel unworthy of coming to God.
Which is the point he keeps dancing around. Maybe I am not wording things correctly, and I usually type very fast on my phone, so sometimes my points don't make it across correctly, or they make it across, but seem very.... blunt. I have apologized for that in the past, so maybe that is what's going on here. Seems like he just doesn't want to come out and say what it sounds like he actually means.
Just point back to your post where you asked a question you claim I did not answer, and we will review.
You asked me a YES/NO question, and I answered with NO, and you insisted I had not answered. How you do that with a straight face, is beyond me.
You asked me another question to which I did not know the answer, so I said "I don't know", and that was not satisfactory. Why?
It seems clear that it doesn't matter what the answer is, because you have already decided to reject all answers across the board.
And then you trash talk about me and call me names with other posters.
So being gay is not an offense punishable by hell?
Being gay? No. Neither is being alcoholic, which is why I made the comparison.
You brought up hell, not me, and then you started to insert it into your "statements" about my views, which were all false. I get it that someone else probably asked you to do it.
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Dishonoring God is not an offense punishable by hell either?
Correct. So, you have learned something after all.
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So what exactly is?
Rejecting Christs invitation to eternal life.
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And what is your issue with homosexuality then?
Where did I say I had an issue with it. It is one sin among countless others.
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Because you CLEARLY have an an issue with it, and continue to post in thread with homosexuality as the topic.
Some people have 600+ posts here. Does that mean they have an issue too? You have more posts than me. Its the topic of the thread.
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You continue to say that anyone who believes in equal rights and representation is pushing the "gay agenda".
Never said that. You need to stop doing this.
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If you truly believed that gay people were equal, and should have all equal rights, and were no worse than any other sinner, you wouldn't see this as an "agenda".
Why? It is an agenda, and it involves condemning and insulting Christian believers, or anyone who speaks about the Biblical views of it.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 05-09-2019 at 05:56 PM..
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