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PS. I wouldn't waste anymore of God's precious time on the "tongue whipping congregation," they are stuck and truly not led by the Spirit of God just by the way they speak and behave toward others . It is so obvious because the fruit coming from these trees (heart) is rotten, as good fruit produces love and feeds the neighbor with juicy sweet nectar regardless who you are and what you believe and does not come from a heart that acts in such unbecoming ways toward their neighbors ! The discernment coming from the Spirit will always reveal the fruit of the tree
You are right. It is time to dust the sandals. Their own words have already proven what I have been saying, so there is no point it repeating it.
Many believe they have mastered the book of religiosity, perfectly without error.
Yet, what is most notable is their condemnation of others who seek after the Spirit.
The standard presented by the Spirit is not confusing or subject to bias or caprice, Finn. Killing a developing human baby in the womb does NOT consider the well-being of everyone involved, specifically the child. So it is against the standard of agape love. But that is between the Mother and God. We have no say in it whatsoever. We have no standing or authority to deny her decision. When will you realize that it is the attempt to ENFORCE God's standards using human secular law and power that is unacceptable. God will enforce His own standards. We can only enforce those that society agrees are necessary to maintain order and safety.
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Originally Posted by Rbbi1
Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out, if you have to kill it, it's alive. And if it's alive, it's a human, not a puppy in there. Yet from what I've seen most that would kill the first and think little of it (until later when their conscience eats them alive, which is acted out in various ways), would call the police and take a ball bat to anyone brutally murdering a puppy right in front of them.
THIS, is a perfect example of the insanity and innate CREATED INABILITY to qualify and identify the righteousness of G-d, that is the carnal mind. Peace
Try to listen carefully. We agree that it is against God's wishes and is morally wrong! It is killing a developing human being. But it is NOT killing a "person" or even a puppy under secular law and should not be a focus of secular law. It is between the Mother and God, period. I personally do not know what circumstances or state of mind I would need to be in to EVER contemplate, let alone condone actually killing my own developing child. But my inability to understand or envision such circumstances or state of mind is no reason for me to deny any mother the choice to stop what is happening in her own body.
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Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
People use current trends, 'logic' and political party line arguments to come to conclusions. The bizarre part on this thread is the fact that they claim those things are the 'spirit' talking to them. As long as the message, be it from newspaper, TV, internet blog, political rally, movies etc agrees with their own view or right and wrong, then they say "that's the truth, the spirit told me so".
As usual, you are clueless about what the real issues are and what those who refuse to inferfere with a Mother's choice actually believe and feel. It has nothing to do with whether or not it is wrong because it IS! It has to do with whether or not society should do anything about it. That is where all the controversy lies.
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There is no spirit in that approach, there is only their own view, which that have already judged as correct. So, their own mind is the spirit and everything which agrees with it is also of the spirit. Amazing......
This is nonsense. Of course, there is the Spirit of agape love there, Finn. But it does NOT justify taking societal action using the legal system. It is morally wrong, period, but NOT legally or societally wrong.
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Originally Posted by nateswift
Try one more time. We are talking about two different things here, whether doing something is right or wrong in God's sight, and whether there is secular reason for thinking it is wrong. The secular debate is NOT about whether a zygote is human, but whether it meets the legal qualification of PERSON with rights assigned to persons of varying degrees of competence.. The only possible SECULAR argument is that the zygote may gain some consideration of PERSON as it develops and where to draw the line that is currently drawn at live birth.
Religious considerations ALONE should NEVER be used to IMPOSE those considerations on people who do not believe, and yes, that is in accordance with the Spirit in the liberty allowed to choose.
Amen. Well said. They clearly are not seeing the two different issues (or they are deliberately not seeing them).
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Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
You missed the point completely. It has nothing to do with imposing anything on anyone.
What do you think enacting a secular law against abortion would be doing if NOT imposing on anyone, Finn??? We "discern in the Spirit" that it is morally WRONG, but we do not condone imposing that on anyone through the law.
Apparently some people do not believe there should be laws. I beg to differ and so does the word of God
having laws is not the problem; having unjust laws is. Laws based only on interpretations of God's will are always unjust....to the ones who don't believe that interpretation.
Just when I'd thought I heard every insane argument there is against doing G-d's will. Now it's the "I believe it's morally wrong, I believe it's against G-d's will, but I don't believe it should be a secular law, because that would be imposing it on others."
NO DIFFERENT, than saying you believe murder is morally wrong, it's against G-d's will, but I don't believe it should be a secular law, because I'd be imposing it on others who don't believer murder is wrong.
Sowing and reaping still exists, whether we want to believe it is a law or not. Neither does our lack of belief in it, change the fact that the law of sowing and reaping is still in effect, and that we as a nation are going to fall precisely because we are going to reap putting secular laws above G-d's laws, because our murdering of millions of innocents while standing by and said "it's their right" to offer up their children to Molech.
Having liberty in His Spirit is not so you can choose to do evil or support evil in someone else! Liberty of the Spirit means you CAN choose, but you are of a MATURE AGE from experience of eating of the wrong tree and learning from it and from His processing, and so CHOSE NOT TO do that which displeases your Master.
If you take your liberty and use it to eat of the wrong tree again, then you have learned nothing, are producing no fruit, the fruit of the womb IS His reward, when He comes His reward is with Him, we know that when He appears we will be just Him, He is producing fully matured Sons IN US, which is why it says Christ IN YOU (not out there, not flying away) is your hope of glory. Which is why they mock it by murdering the fruit of the wombs they can see.
So fully mature Sons, if He were standing right here in front of you right now, how do you think He'd receive your telling Him that you think their right to choose to murder innocents was the most important thing? Peace
......
NO DIFFERENT, than saying you believe murder is morally wrong, it's against G-d's will, but I don't believe it should be a secular law, because I'd be imposing it on others who don't believer murder is wrong.
........
So fully mature Sons, if He were standing right here in front of you right now, how do you think He'd receive your telling Him that you think their right to choose to murder innocents was the most important thing? Peace
Can you read? I said that if there is no compelling secular reason, then an interpretation of God's will should never be imposed on those who don't believe that interpretation.
Honestly, if God's will in any situation is so nebulous that it is not apparent to a reasonable adult, then you need to reexamine your interpretation.
So. fully mature Son and no tyrant, I expect that if I were unable to convince a person contemplating abortion, God would say, "Thank you for not alienating that person by forcing her to keep from doing what she does not believe to be wrong. If it is wrong she will be convinced of it...eventually.
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