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So we have super long threads trying to justify this as normal, the will of God or accept me or your a bigot. If you disagree with the lifestyle its not your opinion, its now hate speech, but if the LGBTQ and backers call you names for not agreeing, its not consider hate speech.
Lets compare homosexuality, with adultery and incest, which are other forms of Sexual immorality listed by God.
For Adultery, I dont hear any one say, God made me this way to want multiple women/men, so Im going to cheat on my spouse and you better not say its wrong or you're a bigot. Actually you're an adulterphobe for not supporting my lifestyle of adultery and I should be able to openly be in adultery in the church too, dont judge.
LGBTQ says whats wrong with 2 committed adults doing what they want behind closed doors.
How about incest. Whats wrong with 2 loving and committed family members having sex with each other behind closed doors. God made them that way, despite where it says in scriptures that is a 100% no no, just like he did on homosexuality. If you say anything against people that commit incest and are open about it in the church too, yore a bigot or incestaphobic.
All 3 scenarios are listed as the sin of Sexual immorality by God and must be repented of. Jesus didnt speak on incest and bestiality, but that doesnt make them okay either. He didnt have to speak on homosexuality, because they all knew it was a abomination to God to live like that, it was wrong, goes against nature and the will of God and considered sexual immorality, so no need for Jesus to go in detail about something that is obvious to them like STOP at a stop sign is obvious to us in our current times.
Whole issue summed up right here.
Is Gay marriage or LGBTQ lifestyle backed by scriptures? NO
Is Gay marriage or LGBTQ lifestyle a sin according to scriptures? YES
Does God recognize marriage between anything other than a man and woman? NO
Is sex outside of marriage a sin according to scriptures? YES
Is homosexual sex outside of marriage sexual immorality according to scriptures ? YES
Is heterosexual sex outside of marriage sexual immorality according to scriptures ? YES
Does the bible say sexual immorality is a sin in the OT and NT? YES
Does the bible say people who practice sexual immorality will not go to heaven? YES
Its that simple, God doesnt hate a homosexual/lesbian, even though he calls their lifestyle an abomination, he still loves them. What he hates is the sin of sexual immorality and it must be repented of and it applies to gay and straight people. Since God sees sex outside of marriage as a sin and will never recognize a gay marriage, homosexuality will always be sexual immorality which is a SIN, just like adultery and fornication.
IN THE BEGINNING
Genesis 1:27
27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
Genesis 2:24
24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
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JESUS CONFIRMS WHAT MARRIAGE IS
Matthew 19
3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him,“Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”
4 And He answered and said to them,“Have you not read that He who made[a] them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said,‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
7 They said to Him,“Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”
8 He said to them,“Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.
9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality,[d] and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”
So Jesus taught from the Torah and it is pretty clear and straight forward that marriage is between a man and a woman only, so Gay marriage and homosexuality will never be okay in the eyes of God.
SEXUAL IMMORALITY IS A SIN AND A SIN AGAINST YOUR OWN BODY
1 Corinthians 6:18
18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.
Gay Marriage, Homosexuality, and Sexual Immorality is wrong, no matter how one tries to flip scriptures to suit them. As a true believer we are to let the bible be the standard, not man kinds corrupt traditions. In the end you give an account to Jesus, not mankind.
Lev 18:22, Lev 20:13, Rom 1:24-32, 1 Cor 6:9, Colossians 3:5-7, Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:5, Rev 21:8
Colossians 3:5-7
5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.
Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[a] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,[b] drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:5
5 For this you know,[a] that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
Revelation 21:8 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving,[a] abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
You should know what the Law says about homosexuality. Christ, as you should also know, came to fulfill the Law, not to abolish it.
With that in mind, here is what He said:
So if you ignore the least commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God's laws and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Matthew 5:19
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
so, how do you feel about shrimp?
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90
What is the purpose of the Old Testament? We are told that the Jews are God's chosen people. What makes them such? In fact, they were destined to be the nation from which the entirety of mankind could be delivered the Messiah. To that end, there were certain restrictions that God imposed on His people, which were fulfilled by the Blood of Christ. That is, we are in the era of a New Covenant. In fact, ours is the Age of Grace. Some of these strictures were rather pragmatic and were influenced by God's divine wisdom. They existed so that Jesus, our Lord and Savior, could be delivered to all of us.
The admonition against homosexuality is not merely pragmatic. It's categorical. Judgment against it is repeated in the New Testament. But, because we are in the Age of Grace now, the punishment for it is no longer death. God does call sinners of EVERY variety in our present Age of Grace to receive His grace, to repent, and to find Him.
Case in point, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit was unforgivable while Christ was among us on the earth. The Pharisees SAW God Himself, and knew beyond any doubt that Jesus was Lord, and rejected Him. In contrast, since the time of the Pentecost, we walk in the Holy Spirit by faith rather than by sight. Ergo, anyone who fears they may have blasphemed the Holy Spirit (and there are many who have this fear) should rest assured, because that sin is impossible to commit in our Age of Grace. The Pharisees saw by light (LITERAL light), and turned away. We see God through faith, which is exactly the opposite way.
None of us has ever seen God. And, as born again believers, we will not until we are delivered to Him, whether by Uppertaker or undertaker.
So, basically you don't believe in a "New Covenant," you believe in a revised "Old Covenant."
Wrong
Think paradigm shift..... what is wrong with "law" in itself? Does "law" have the power to make you WANT to do what is right?
What is needed is a change of heart...a commitment to that concern for the well being of others that is expressed in the basis FOR the "New Covenant" expressed in the "new commandment." Look it up.
Telling anyone to calm down in a discussion, especially before you've established a level of trust and respect with them, is dismissive condescension, and it's likely to backfire. Fortunately for snj90, you are a spiritually mature person who self-regulates even when other people make such a misstep.
He is very dismissive, and seems to be pretty full of himself.
Seriously though, can you be any more concerned with the works of the flesh than to worry about naughty bits and what's going on with them?
Carnal-mindedness seems to dominate Fundamentalist thinking despite the warnings against it. Aside from eating and drinking for survival, sex is the most powerful carnal appetite. But like eating and drinking, it has nothing directly to do with God. The spiritual state of mind we bring to it is what involves God.
Carnal-mindedness seems to dominate Fundamentalist thinking despite the warnings against it. Aside from eating and drinking for survival, sex is the most powerful carnal appetite. But like eating and drinking, it has nothing directly to do with God. The spiritual state of mind we bring to it is what involves God.
You're the one always bagging on everyone else for it. just saying.
You're missing my message entirely. I don't even WANT IT anymore! I'm not denying anything to myself! By becoming increasingly closer to God, my desire to sin has commensurately plummeted!
Yes, we are born with temptation to sin. I have stated this quite plainly. The Lord has absolutely saddled me with greater temptation! I look upon this as a blessing, because I have a greater opportunity now to prove my worthiness to Him!
Please be calm, and do not use foul language. Where am I coming from, you ask? You REALLY want to know? I'll tell you.
As my username suggests, I was born in 1990. So here's the chronology.
2003: accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior. But, even before this time, I felt attraction to other males. I tried to deny that such attraction even existed.
2004: was introduced to the internet and regrettably started to become more involved in traditionalist Catholicism. I was raised Catholic (regrettably). The denial of God's grace eventually drove me crazy and caused me to reject God. I convinced myself He didn't exist.
2005: Decided to explore my homosexual fantasies by coming onto a friend of mine that I fancied. He had moved to my school district just that year (freshman year of HS 2004-05). And he would soon depart again come summer of 2005. But for the first few months of 2005, my decision to take a chance on him (yeah, he might be straight, but #YOLO! ) resulted in my absolute dejection.
2005-08: Utter frustration. As a high schooler, I was without God and without the means to acquire what my flesh wanted: a homosexual relationship. I longed for college.
2008: Initially, I wanted to go to college in Canada. I wanted out of this country. Even applied to a few colleges there (and was accepted, due to my good and improving grades). But in the end, I chose Massachusetts. Spent a year there, and almost immediately realized I'd made a mistake. I was taking on a higher tuition bill. And, to boot, I found absolutely no one who could possibly be my "soulmate." So I transferred back in-state.
2009-11: Having been a member for a while, I become a moderator on the now-defunct gayteenforum.net. Yes, as an adult (ages 18-21) I was regrettably in a position of authority and countenancing perversion in the presence of more impressionable minds. I ask God's forgiveness, and stand assured that I have received it. But, to answer your question, I have spent a LOT of time fraternizing with other homosexual males. So I do believe I talk from experience. Some gat males may have (platonic) female friends. But very many do delight in not having to deal with women romantically. Of course, this is the opposite of what God intends.
2012: Despite having elevated myself to the status of moderator on a gay teen forum, I had yet to actually experience homosexuality. That changed in 2012. I found someone online, and we had a relationship that lasted a few months. That was largely during the spring semester of 2012. Eventually, we just broke it off. Actually, he was a pagan (a "witch"), and I had a passing interest in the occult. I sat through some of the spells or rituals or whatever he would practice. I never felt a single thing. Not a single demon. Truly, my Lord was still protecting me from evil spirits, even in the depths of my sinfulness.
2012-18: Graduated, went from one lousy job to another. Went through various political phases. I was absolutely a racist, and my posting history from about 2014-18 will attest to that! I confess that. I ask for God's forgiveness. And I live assured that I have received it.
2019: I still struggled with this question even at the beginning of this calendar year. I regained my Christian faith only at the very end of 2018 (December 28, to be specific). In 2019, I have purchased so many Christian books. But I often find, God gives me the answers I was originally seeking before I've had a chance to read them! So on 1/11/2019, I was standing in line at the Barnes & Nobel, attempting to purchase "God and the Gay Christian" by Matthew Vines (an exculpatory book). It was humiliating. I was standing there in line trying to buy this book, and it was taking forever. There was only a single clerk, and the line was barely moving. I was trying to hold the book in a way that concealed its cover. I even watched as a male I found attractive came into the line behind me.
Finally, I made the purchase. But I've yet to read the book. No worries there; in the time since then, God has revealed to me all the reasons that homosexuality is wrong. Yet, He has warmly embraced me as His child, all the same! All these signs and tests (and there are MORE, which I will not reveal now, for the sake of brevity) from God have a purpose in my life. I KNOW it! I've lived it. Yes, of all the books I've purchased, I have begun reading some and have found much delightful and informative content. Especially Charles Stanley's "Eternal Security." Now, that book is a true Godsend for me! And I have no doubt about at all!! What an amazing book. Its year of publication being my own year of birth. 1990.
No, I don't need to read that other book. Not now, at least. Maybe I will do so as soon as the Lord has finished strengthening me in the Truth, so that I can resist and refute lies. But, in the meantime, at least I did remove the last copy from the shelf that evening. Maybe, hopefully, that action prevented someone else from being led by falsehood.
Andy Stanley, son of Charles, is twice the preacher and witness of his father. They had a split over an incident at Charles' church where a gay pride group was going to show up at some meeting the church was having.
Quote:
One Sunday, a gay pride group planned to march past his father's church. Leaders of the congregation, warned in advance, dismissed church early to avoid contact with the group. But organizers of the march changed the schedule. Andy watched as First Baptist members filed out of the church and gawked at gay and lesbian marchers streaming by. Then he noticed a Methodist church across the street whose members held out cups of water for marchers and signs that said, "Everybody welcome! Come worship with us!"
"We're the church that sings 'Just as I Am' after the sermon, and here we are shunning this group of people because of a lifestyle we disagreed with," he says now.
Two preaching giants and the 'betrayal' that tore them apart - CNN.com
In Andy's own church a man divorced his wife to marry a man. Andy asked him and his new spouse to leave---not because they were in a gay marriage, but because they committed the sin God speaks against most often in the Bible--adultery. Adultery is one of the most frequently and severely condemned sins in the Bible. Adultery is mentioned 52 times, including in the Ten Commandments, all four Gospels, and ten other books of the Bible. Only the sins of idolatry, self-righteousness and murder are mentioned more often. So Andy felt it was appropriate for the adulterer and his new spouse to leave the home church and go to one of the five other campuses of Andy Stanley's ministry. He preaches to over 30,000 people every week.
The Bible is a good book, too. But as Andy says, we need to get back to First Century Christianity that didn't have a Bible.
Well. Here's the thing, and this might sting a bit, because you seem pretty full of yourself.
A fault I admit. I try not to be... it's just I know what I have been going through is true. And I just want to get it all out there. I'm not trying to make myself seem better than anyone else. It's just I truly feel incredibly blessed, overjoyed, and I do strongly believe in what I have been experiencing.
Quote:
You're not. Not even a little bit. As sinless as you might believe yourself to be
Oh, I never said that at all!
Quote:
Back to slander, and it being a sin...calling Matthew Vines a liar before you've even read his book and know what it says? THAT is slander. And yes, it is a sin. So before you come in here, and start telling us how sinful we are...look in the freaking mirror.
I didn't call him a liar. If I had done so, I would have to call myself one (at the time I purchased the book). But I wasn't. Satan is the liar. Indeed, I was pursuing a false gospel that I wanted to believe and I wanted to believe made sense. Essentially, I was still doing so in good faith, albeit interpreting the Gospel in a way that would be unduly favorable to my own lusts. Yes, you can act in good faith and still have biases. Bad faith is equivalent to intentional deception on the part of the bad faith actor.
I don't accuse Mr. Vines of acting in bad faith, as that is indeed a serious allegation of fact for which I have no supporting evidence. No. Not at all. Rather, what I am saying is that Satan gets others to preach a false gospel. The preachers themselves may essentially be acting in good faith. It's Satan who's acting in bad faith.
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) resulted in my absolute dejection. 