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What group do you affiliate with? For some reason I was thinking Oneness Pentecostal?
I am not affiliated with any group. I was raised Catholic and left it when I was 24 years old. I studied many denominations. I think I read somewhere that you were a member of the Church of Christ. I studied that denomination also and though my beliefs are close to theirs, probably more then any other, I cannot accept their water baptism before receiving the Holy Spirit. I am also not a trinitarian, but I do know that Jesus is God, and not in the Pentecostals modalist way.
Huh ? Where did that come from ? Im not getting into the baby argument, thats a diversion. How were they concluded in unbelief according to Rom 11:32 ?
Huh ? Where did that come from ? Im not getting into the baby argument, thats a diversion. How were they concluded in unbelief according to Rom 11:32 ?
Probably because there are fathers, mothers, children, babies included in that national all that is being spoken of
Rom 11:25**For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26**And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27**For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28**As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29**For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Rom 11:30**For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31**Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32**For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Probably because there are fathers, mothers, children, babies included in that national all that is being spoken of
Rom 11:25**For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26**And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27**For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28**As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29**For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Rom 11:30**For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31**Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32**For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
How did the all in Rom 11:32 get in the prison of unbelief ?
How did the all in Rom 11:32 get in the prison of unbelief ?
I’m just following your conversation with Kate and Jesus truth, seeing how this develops
Debate is not one of my skills, my skills are more reading, thinking, comparing
The fathers seem to have put them in this prison of unbelief though
In Galatians we see it is through the letter/documents/law/man that it happens
Gal 3:22**But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23**But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24**Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25**But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26**For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27**For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28**There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29**And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
At age 7, I invited Jesus into my life and from that time I realized God's omnipresence and omnipotence.
My parents did not push me nor did any teacher or preacher, but the testimony of those that had put off God till things were so bad in their life the only direction they had was looking up.
I determined that I would seek after God as early as possible before things go bad.
Later in life, I learned that it is God's design to teach those that actually love Him. Jesus provided this through the Holy Spirit and it is His promise to lead those He loves and his warning to those that would abuse His name for their own purposes. Matthew 7;21,22,23,
I am 71 and God is still faithful and teaching me all the time.
It's not about academics, it is about obedience.
Not slave-like but child-like.
When you learn that God is looking out for you, and heaven is your ultimate destination, what happens on this earth is a training platform for greater things.
The academics so many are caught up in Bible trivia, loose the point for which we are created, fellowship with God.
God is not impressed with what you think you know, most of which is useless eternally.
Jesus said, My sheep know my voice. That's really the big question I think.
Can God tell you to stop what you're doing and go a different direction?
Who is in charge?
At age 7, I invited Jesus into my life and from that time I realized God's omnipresence and omnipotence.
My parents did not push me nor did any teacher or preacher, but the testimony of those that had put off God till things were so bad in their life the only direction they had was looking up.
I determined that I would seek after God as early as possible before things go bad.
Later in life, I learned that it is God's design to teach those that actually love Him. Jesus provided this through the Holy Spirit and it is His promise to lead those He loves and his warning to those that would abuse His name for their own purposes. Matthew 7;21,22,23,
I am 71 and God is still faithful and teaching me all the time.
It's not about academics, it is about obedience.
Not slave-like but child-like.
When you learn that God is looking out for you, and heaven is your ultimate destination, what happens on this earth is a training platform for greater things.
The academics so many are caught up in Bible trivia, loose the point for which we are created, fellowship with God.
God is not impressed with what you think you know, most of which is useless eternally.
Jesus said, My sheep know my voice. That's really the big question I think.
Can God tell you to stop what you're doing and go a different direction?
Who is in charge?
The kingdom of heaven already belongs to children, but it is when we are adults that we have to repent of our sins and die to the sins of the world and promise to live to please Jesus.
The kingdom of heaven already belongs to children, but it is when we are adults that we have to repent of our sins and die to the sins of the world and promise to live to please Jesus.
I believe it is more about being able to achieve some sort of personal balance within the greater society which I think we can all see is pretty unbalanced
There is nothing wrong with education and business, commerce, communication, law, order, hierarchy in political, religious, social settings but there is many abuses of those things where those in authority have misused them and caused rebellion and revolt and that has ripple effects
Eph 6:1**Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
Eph 6:2**Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise)
Eph 6:3**That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
Eph 6:4**And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
I am not affiliated with any group. I was raised Catholic and left it when I was 24 years old. I studied many denominations. I think I read somewhere that you were a member of the Church of Christ. I studied that denomination also and though my beliefs are close to theirs, probably more then any other, I cannot accept their water baptism before receiving the Holy Spirit. I am also not a trinitarian, but I do know that Jesus is God, and not in the Pentecostals modalist way.
The church of Christ is not a denomination. I know that’s hard for people to accept, but I’ll try to explain why the congregation I worship with is not. First, we are autonomous. We answer to no central headquarters, unlike Baptists, Methodists, Episcopalian, etc. We have no creed except the Bible. We answer to no other congregation. We are not affiliated with other churches of Christ except in a very loose sense, that being many of our teachings are alike. Each church of Christ I have visited is different, some more liberal, some more conservative. Most, but not all are led by a group of elders. We have four elders. Every penny from the weekly collection stays local. The monies are used to feed the poor, evangelize, etc. Not one cent goes to a central headquarters. There is no reason why a congregation anywhere in this world can’t be non denominational or better yet pre denominational (before denominations existed). Get back to the patterns we read about in the New Testament. Get back to the Bible. Speak where the Bible speaks. Be silent where the Bible is silent.
Second, and I speak only for the congregation I worship with and no one else’s. There is ONE church only, and it belongs to Christ. The goal of our congregation is to follow the patterns found in the New Testament. We strive to be as close as humanly possible to first century Christianity. Every decision made by our elders is based on the Scriptures. For example, New Testament Christian’s met on the first day of the week. They prayed. They sang praises to the Lord.They read and listened to Scriptures. They gave as they prospered, and most important, they shared the Supper of the Lord. We do these things. The New Testament church evangelized. So do we. We do many good works in our community. We visit the sick, etc. These are the things first century Christians did. We do nothing that has not been authorized by Christ.
The plan of salvation is clear in Scripture. We are commanded to believe, repent, confess Jesus is Lord, be baptized and live a faithful life. Our congregation follows God’s plan.
Now I say this with all sincerity. You need to be affiliated. You need to assemble. Assembling is not an option. It’s commanded.
I’m curious as to when you think the Holy Spirit is received. Imho, we receive the indwelling Holy Spirit at our baptism. I say that based on what Acts 2:38 says.
“Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
Again, imho, the gift of the Holy Spirit is His indwelling us.
Tell me what you think.
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