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Elgusano, what is it that you want? Are you really earnestly seeking to find Jesus? Are you asking me wholeheartedly what "must I do" to be saved? Talk to me.
I'm wanting you (or others) to answer the question from the Bible, and if there are contradictions in the answer, explain why you're willing to accept contradictions and how many.
The answer to the question, "What must I do to be saved?" is simple: Believe (once, plus nothing) on the Lord Jesus and you will (not may) be saved period.
There is nothing else required to get, stay, or prove that you're spiritually saved. It's a done deal.
So, what must I do to be saved?
(The question about justification still stands: Why are we told that we are justified and that we much continue to cause ourselves to be justified?)
I already answered your question, but it isn't what you want to hear. So you want to "debate" now? I'm not going there. Once saved always saved? So you can fall short , back slide, murder, rape, steal, blaspheme then collected your crown and go straight to heaven? Really?
Once again, here is Scripture:
20. For, if after they have escaped the
pollutions of the world through the
knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus
Christ, they are again entangled in them
and over come, the latter end is worse for
them than the beginning.
21. For it would have been better for
them to have not known the way of righteous-
ness, than having known it, to turn
from the holy commandment delivered to
them.
22. But it has happened to them accord-
ing to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit," and, "a sow, having
washed, to her wallowing in the mire."
2 Peter 2: 20-22
If this isn't scriptural enough for you, I don't know what else would be. It's pretty clear that the Bible holds a standard for each and everyone one of us to follow. We can't pick and choose what we want to believe and forget the rest. God's Words are forever and it never changes. No, not "once" save, "always" save. I have children that when they are disobedient they're punished. And after they are punished, they must go before God before they come to me and ask forgiveness. That's the standard to which I hold my children accountable. Does that mean that I ever stop loving my children? No, but I hold them accountable to God first, then mommy second.
Does that mean that God stop loving us when we fall short? No, But the Bible do say also: He is long-suffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. You don't get to collect your crown and advance to heaven because you've been save once. No my friend. If you die in your sin, your reward will be as such. If you die in Christ Jesus , your reward will be as such. Now is the day of salvation. Today, while we are yet breathing. God speed. Hope this helps.
Your sister in Christ Jesus
Last edited by Betsey Lane; 08-16-2008 at 07:29 PM..
I already answered your question, but it isn't what you want to hear. So you want to "debate" now? I'm not going there. Once saved always saved? So you can fall short , back slide, murder, rape, steal, blaspheme then collected your crown and go straight to heaven? Really?
You can fall short, backslide, murder, rape, steal, and blaspheme and still be in the family.
Collect crowns? No. Crowns are earned. (There are two types of crowns in the Bible, diadema and stephanos. Diadema has to do with sovereignty and is not used in conjunction with men. Stephanos is a victor's crown, which has to do with reward.)
If you do these things, you might be excluded from an entrance into the coming Kingdom, and might even spend the Millennium in hell. We are rewarded for our works. Rewards are what you earn, and you don't always earn something good.
It's like the sheep and goats in Matthew 25: Each is rewarded for his works, with one going to aionian reward and the other to aionian chastisement. Goats are clean animals; goats and sheep are both types of spiritually saved individuals. Numbers 18:17a: But the firstling of a cow, or the firstling of a sheep, or the firstling of a goat, thou shalt not redeem; they are holy:
Do you think a type of an unsaved person destined for the lake of fire forever and ever is called holy?
So, how do you accept the contradiction between saying that a saved person can become unsaved with Acts 16:31 which says they cannot? How many contradictions are you willing to accept?
Nothing in that passage about spiritual salvation. That's a connection that you have added.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane
If this isn't scriptural enough for you, I don't know what else would be. It's pretty clear that the Bible holds a standard for each and everyone one of us to follow.
Of course the Bible holds a standard for us to all follow. No one has said otherwise.
The only thing is, you claim that the standard is loss of being in the family. Why do you assume that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane
We can't pick and choose what we want to believe and forget the rest.
Good advice that I tell people a lot.
Don't forget: Believe (once, plus nothing) on the Lord Jesus and you will (not "may"; no doubt about it) be saved, period.
Don't pick and choose and forget this passage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane
I have children that when they are disobedient they're punished. And after they are punished, they must go before God before they come to me and ask forgiveness. That's the standard to which I hold my children accountable. Does that mean that I ever stop loving my children? No, but I hold them accountable to God first, then mommy second.
So, do they cease being your children when they are disobedient? How about when you punish them? Does their accountability mean that they may somehow cease being your child?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane
If you die in your sin, your reward will be as such.
Absolutely. But, why do you assume that the reward will be going to the lake of fire forever and ever after forfeiting something that the Bible says you can't forfeit?
I'm a once saved always saved...I believe that when God writes us in the book of life that he does not have an eraser. `The Bible does talk about the unpardonable sin which I have always learned is rejecting Christ. I have also believed that if someone worships Satan that God's spirit could not coexist with that spirit. But we all sin and continue to do so even after we have given ourselves over to Christ. Paul says, "if we say we have no sin the truth is not with us." When we sin we are not losing our salvation we lose our fellowship with God. We need only to repent, turn away, from our sin and accept his forgiveness and payment for that sin and our fellowship is returned. God is not a God of fear. When he sent sin Son to die on the cross for us it was past, present and future. So at that moment of salvation he already knew the sins you would commit to the end of your life. Our salvation cannot be based on anything we do or it is less than perfect. God does not play with our lives and keep us worrying if we are going to lose our salvation. Otherwise it would be that last buck in the offering plate will save us.
AMEN!!!!! I totally agree! My name is also in the Book of Life FOREVER.
I find it interesting that in the lists of things that will exclude someone from the Kingdom (which many equate with being born from above, or unborn, as the case may be) that some of the things are overlooked or skimmed over, and they're all talking about works. How many works do I need to be above the magical line above which we're saved and below which we're not?:
1 Corinthians 6:9-10: Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators [fornication covers an awful lot of sin], nor idolaters [how much do you like your car?], nor adulterers [did you look a little too long?], nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves [did you keep a penny too much change?], nor covetous [just how much do you want?], nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners [are you a member of a union?], shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21: Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness [covers a lot], lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:5: For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Revelation 21:8: But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars [ever told an ugly girl she's pretty?], shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
I'm a once saved always saved...I believe that when God writes us in the book of life that he does not have an eraser. `The Bible does talk about the unpardonable sin which I have always learned is rejecting Christ. I have also believed that if someone worships Satan that God's spirit could not coexist with that spirit. But we all sin and continue to do so even after we have given ourselves over to Christ. Paul says, "if we say we have no sin the truth is not with us." When we sin we are not losing our salvation we lose our fellowship with God. We need only to repent, turn away, from our sin and accept his forgiveness and payment for that sin and our fellowship is returned. God is not a God of fear. When he sent sin Son to die on the cross for us it was past, present and future. So at that moment of salvation he already knew the sins you would commit to the end of your life. Our salvation cannot be based on anything we do or it is less than perfect. God does not play with our lives and keep us worrying if we are going to lose our salvation. Otherwise it would be that last buck in the offering plate will save us.
Rev 3:2 'Wake up, and strengthen the things that remain, which were about to die; for I have not found your deeds completed in the sight of My God. 'So remember what you have received and heard; and keep and repent. Therefore if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you. 'But you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. 'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
So Ted Bundy was saved at the age of 16. We are aware of his nature. He's "always" save? Really?
For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.
For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. What is so difficult to understand about this passage? Wasn't the end result for all of us death? The latter end?
Last edited by Betsey Lane; 08-16-2008 at 09:54 PM..
Only he and God know whether he ever believed or not. If he did, then the Bible says he is, and I believe it!
So after all the crimes that he's committed, he gets a free pass into heaven? Because he "once" was saved? The operative word here is "once". So I can go out here tomorrow, hold up a bank, kill several guards in the process, steal a get away car, crash into an oncoming semi-truck, die and I'm still "saved"? Cause I am saved right now you know. I go straight to heaven. No penalties. Yeah?
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and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
