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Fudamentalist, I vastly agree with you. I'm convinced that we live in the times prophesied about in the early Church. That prophecy being that the time would come when they would not endure sound doctrine.
It is a pity that so many Churches will not even give sound doctrine a try. Even Nahum finally agreed to go dip himself in the river seven times. But these modern day "know it alls" are high minded and insist that Church doctrines should be changed in accordance with popular social "norms".
Many pastors and elders of Churches are giving way to the social rebellion against GOD. Many women are determined to be the head of things and will stop at nothing until they have spun their evil web and played the part of the black widow. This behavior is the work of satan.
At the same time, we must be very careful that we who know better do not become bitter and angry in our hearts. We must walk in love, while continueing to take the firm stand for righteousness, knowing that GOD is not mocked and that He will bring the evil doers to their end, unless they repent.
And by the way, men should have the shorter hair, and women should have the longer hair.
Very well said!
I wish I could word things as well.....
Just wandering what the views are on women preachers and women deacons in a church. I have heard many great women inspirational speakers and women motivators but as far as preachers im not against it I fill if the Lord calls you to do something then by all means do it. Don't know of any churches that has women deacons but they were in the bible. I believe its OK too but just wandering what the census is on here.
As with many/most non salvaic issues within Christianity, this question(s) does more to divide then to weave our faith, but is a valid question. Often... many people of developing belief or faith, find these issues a reason to condemn the Bible or the Christian/Judaic belief system in any venue.... however ... It is not my intention to diminish the importance of God's word or to establish it's irrelevancy based on a secular comparison, but rather to point out .... this is an issue that's an exhortation by God recorded/written in the Bible by various God inspired authors, for our benefit. Women/men shouldn't see this as a sexist issue but rather God's unique understanding of His own creation... and more specifically how men and women were designed to bring forth Gods purpose and establish His glory. I'm gonna assume everyone has a Bible, I do not like to "trump" other Christians with biblical references.
Question 1
Women make great teachers, motivators and inspirational speakers.... no one can deny that, (THANKYOU Mom) but the Bible gives authority to teach, within God's house, to men. It would be easy for me say "this exhortation should just be "accepted" but that would be an injustice to women... at least from Dave's perspective. Therefore I must interject some theological perspective so my position can be more easily understood while not judging or condemning others who believe otherwise.... a bit of a personal disclaimer, if you will.
Men and women are equal in God's eyes.... period! This is God's truth.... and from this foundational truth, we try to find how God's purpose is carried out, with each of us developing and building our understanding of His provision and love.
Satan came to Eve in the garden... why? ... Why didn't satan come to Adam? Why do/are most ads on TV (except beer ads) directed towards women? Why is Oprah so popular? These are just some personal observations... antidotal for sure (ads and Oprah) but we must know and accept that satan knows and takes advantage of our design weaknesses. With that said ... and generally speaking, and with all due respect... women can be more easily influenced by emotionally charged situations then men. Not all would agree... but my personal experiences confirms this for me. Is that bad? of course not... God has created women perfectly! No creation of His is flawed... but we certainly can take what is perfect and give it a twist of denial, uncertainty or embellishment and thereby attempt to perfect what already is perfect. This is why I believe God intended for men to teach the Word. Men are just a bit harder to influence or deceive by satan's deceit. Men have a similar if not a greater weakness.... and many marriages have failed as a result.... it's called infidelity.... so none is above temptation.
Can women teach? of course they can. Can they preach or pastor? ... here is a/my theological component... "as long as a woman does it under the authority of a man". I can feel the ladies hackles rising up as I write this.... and please, please let me give an example ...... Joyce Meyers, talented preacher, great teacher... she does God's work under her husbands authority and she speaks of him often. Does this in any way diminish God's work or her skills? absolutely not! Remember it's not about you and me... it's about His purpose and His Glory! Always remember and never forget.... Pride and ego are the corner stones of a fool.... so we must cast these off and do what we are exhorted to do.... trying to remember it's ultimately for our good.
Another example might be.... a small group or Bible study for women given by women.... the Bible addresses this... so a non issue. Here's another... a group of men being "addressed" by a women who is explainingg .... let's say a marriage intensive class and a woman is giving insight into the mind of a woman... who else could do this? are men learning (yeah right) of course we are.... but it's not God's word... but certainly it is about God's beautiful handy work.
Question 2
Women can be deacons... but can not be elders. Deacons primarily serve and elders lead.
This is my belief on the above questions in the OP.
Romans 16.1 I commend to you Phoebe our sister, who is a servant in Cenchrea' (NKJV)
I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a servant* of the church which is at Cenchrea, (NASB) *or deaconness (NIV is similar) (ASV is the same , without the footnote)
I commend to you Phoebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea, (KJV)
I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deaconess of the church at Chenchrea, (RSV)
diakonos, one who renders service to another;an attendant , servant,
diakonos is translated as deacon which means the following: [SIZE=2][SIZE=2]one who executes the commands of another, esp. of a master, a servant, attendant, minister
the servant of a king
a deacon, one who, by virtue of the office assigned to him by the church, cares for the poor and has charge of and distributes the money collected for their use
11 Then He said to them, “What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? 12 Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.” 13 Then He said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” And he stretched it out, and it was restored as whole as the other. 14 Then the Pharisees went out and plotted against Him, how they might destroy Him.
How much more value is a man to the Lord? Anyone seeing the connection here? If the bible instructs a woman not to preach, then she's not to preach! Therefore, what woman among you, that have a word that can save someone soul, would'nt let him hear it? How much more valuable is that man to God? God desires mercy. We all should have mercy. God's bigger than you could ever imagine. He desire that none of us should taste of death. Am I breaking the law when I sit here day after day and teach folks about the saving grace of our Lord Jesus Christ? Are you? Think about it.
Can women teach? of course they can. Can they preach or pastor? ... here is a/my theological component... "as long as a woman does it under the authority of a man". I can feel the ladies hackles rising up as I write this.... and please, please let me give an example ...... Joyce Meyers, talented preacher, great teacher... she does God's work under her husbands authority and she speaks of him often. Does this in any way diminish God's work or her skills? absolutely not! Remember it's not about you and me... it's about His purpose and His Glory! Always remember and never forget.... Pride and ego are the corner stones of a fool.... so we must cast these off and do what we are exhorted to do.... trying to remember it's ultimately for our good.
Joyce Meyer- talented preacher, great teacher? well you and I will beg to differ on that one. I agree that she is charismatic.
Isn't that a bit of a loop hole? The bible is very adamant that women can not be preachers. Men are to set the example in spiritual leadership—in their lives and through their words. Women are to take a less authoritative role. Women are encouraged to teach other women. Women in the church are not restricted to public praying or prophesying only to having spiritual teaching authority over men. I don't see anywhere it says, "full authority" How do you get around this passage?
(1 Timothy 2:11-14)
"11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a..."
Based on the same relationship Christ had with the Father as He was in "submission" and given full authority, and man being in submission to Christ so to shall a woman under full submission to her husband given full authority by virtue of being one flesh.
Based on the same relationship Christ had with the Father as He was in "submission" and given full authority, and man being in submission to Christ so to shall a woman under full submission to her husband given full authority by virtue of being one flesh.
True but I was relating it to this topic. I just don't see anywhere in the bible that women can have authority over men as long as she is under a man, but that's me.
Didn't God tell Abraham to "listen" to Sarah? Wasn't Miriam, the sister of Moses, called a prophetess? if a man is unwilling (Deboah and Barak) or unable, or incomplete, Abigail mentoring David.... but always under the authority of a man (or God) in submission (yielding with love).
Didn't God tell Abraham to "listen" to Sarah? Wasn't Miriam, the sister of Moses, called a prophetess? if a man is unwilling (Deboah and Barak) or unable, or incomplete, Abigail mentoring David.... but always under the authority of a man (or God) in submission (yielding with love).
I figure it's all about doing what the Lord wants you to do. He puts you where He wants you. Although, I am always surprised when I see women in certain positions such as pastoring...I do believe women should not be preachers. Then again, sometimes men aren't where they should be with the Lord and it becomes problematic.
Does it all ever just hurt your head?
Bottom line for me...women should not be in positions of authority over men.
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my view
