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Not really, the Christian Universalist knows that any fireman worth anything will drag someone out of a burning house against their will to save them.
I suppose some believe in a God that wouldn't do something like that though.
Imagine a fireman saying, "I saved all but a few because they chose to stay, and I didn't want to force them to exit the house against their free will." Would the local news herald him as a hero or savior? I hardly think so.
What happens after Hades is destroyed, along with Death?
The New Heavens and Earth....where there is still SIN!
You seem to be totally hung up on that. Why can't you place importance on, and trust in, God's true, divine, and holy character rather than some "clue" in Revelation that's all about mystery and symbolism?
Imagine a fireman saying, "I saved all but a few because they chose to stay, and I didn't want to force them to exit the house against their free will." Would the local news herald him as a hero or savior? I hardly think so.
Now THAT is a really good point you make BHFT!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow
You seem to be totally hung up on that. Why can't you place importance on, and trust in, God's true, divine, and holy character rather than some "clue" in Revelation that's all about mystery and symbolism?
And that is also a good question. I'm so glad I'm getting away from doctrine and drawing closer to who God really is.
Imagine a fireman saying, "I saved all but a few because they chose to stay, and I didn't want to force them to exit the house against their free will." Would the local news herald him as a hero or savior? I hardly think so.
Here are two examples of why We cannot truly simplify God's Will with our finite mind other than he loves his creation...US:
SODOM AND GOMORRAH
Genesis 19:16 While he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.
This fits the analogy of the fireman...
But then...what of this?
17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life, look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.
26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.
This is after being literally yanked by the angel/fireman to escape the fire...
I won't even attempt to give an explanation to this!
I trust the LORD my saviour and redeemer, for he IS the way...and his way leads to life
You seem to be totally hung up on that. Why can't you place importance on, and trust in, God's true, divine, and holy character rather than some "clue" in Revelation that's all about mystery and symbolism?
What's there to be hung up on.....the scriptures and what it says?
I present this case, because I read flakey remarks such as Death is destroyed for everyone, there is no sin in our reconciled world, the elements of material creation will dissolve, so forth, on and on.
So then I ask, in your UR reconciled world, where Death is destroyed, there is no more sin, etc etc, in scripture there is only one age where this is acheived, and that is the NH and E, and there in that world, there is still sin....outside the place where there is no more sin....which is called the New Jerusalem, where all these things occur in the NH and E, so your reconciled creation and mankind, is a failed attempt of eisegesis.
Yeah I am hung up, because this UR view contradicts itself. UR doesn't look at the finer details of what the text says, it disregards them, or from what I have seen on this forum especially, is it is outright avoided, when a UR person can't deal with it...or like Mystic says, They were savages!
LOL
I will take the scripture over your thoughts, and it says what it says, whether you, or anyone else wants to accept it or not. God's will? Are you referring to 1 Tim 2? Because if you are, guess what? What you think it says, does not say what you import into it, because the text, disproves this line of reasoning. I trust God's true, Divine Holy character, He did what He said He would do, and guess what?........"It is finished". The question is.....do you?
Yeah I am hung up, because this UR view contradicts itself. UR doesn't look at the finer details of what the text says, it disregards them, or from what I have seen on this forum especially, is it is outright avoided, when a UR person can't deal with it...or like Mystic says, They were savages!
And you prefer to retain the veil of ignorance from those savage interpretations of God's inspirations rather than use the "mind of Christ" and the Holy Spirit within to use what is "written in our HEARTS" to interpret using the TRUE NATURE of God . . . NOT some savages' interpretations of the nature of God.
2 Corinthians 3:14-17
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
Quote:
LOL
I don't see it as a laughing matter to deliberately eschew knowledge and retain an ignorant "fear doctrine" of God . . . when Jesus was SO EXPLICIT about "love God and each other" as encompassing it all.
Quote:
I trust God's true, Divine Holy character, He did what He said He would do, and guess what?........"It is finished". The question is.....do you?
Regrettably the so-called "true character" you trust is neither Divine or Holy or True (ONLY Jesus' character is Divine, Holy and True) . . . you follow another Spirit and it is evil.
Funny that I am so powerful that I can reject God and he just steps to the side.
Kinda gives you a rush that you are able to defeat God and Christ in one simple rejection of the gospel according to Finn.
If you want to believe that.. well okay...be my guest.
Free will means you MUST have a choice between GOOD and EVIL... how can you expect to have free will (a choice between GOOD AND EVIL) yet if you choose the EVIL you are tortured forever? So in other words it isn't really FREE will because the consequences of making the FREE choice of EVIL is so harsh that anyone in their right mind could not see that as a valid choice.
Your concept of free will is that you can freely choose the GOOD but not the EVIL. LOL seems as if you don't really have FREE WILL at all but are being forced to do what is GOOD to avoid that which is EVIL (eternal torture)...
To each his own
True Kat...
It is sometimes hard to admit for some, but the concept of "free will" does not exist. One cannot choose Christ, He has chosen us.
Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
That is a good way of putting it.....UR is the getting away from doctrine
Yes . . . the "precepts and doctrines of men" . . . especially those retained from primitive savage men covered under the veil of ignorance from reading Moses and the OT. It is truly liberating. to know God's TRUE NATURE and Love.
2 Corinthians 3:14-17
But their minds were blinded:(Blind Minds = Ignorance)for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16Nevertheless when it(the HEART) shall turn to the Lord(Jesus), the vail shall be taken away.
17Nowthe Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
Excellent post, Legoman. I wish others would take the time to understand this like I have. It puts a whole new light on the meaning of "hell". And you're right, as long as people still see the lake of fire as being "hell" then it's like having a completely pointless conversation with someone who's talking about apples, while you're speaking about oranges.
Ahh...Ilene...your eyes are being opened more and more each day. Good for you. I used to believe in a lot of these traditional beliefs, but God dragged me (and I mean dragged, kicking and screaming) to Him. I just didnt want to believe what He said. Drinking the "milk" of the Word is one thing, but eating the real "meat" of it is another. So yes, the one talking of "apples" is still drinking the "milk". This is why Paul calls them "babes". You are maturing past a babe, good for you.
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Imagine a fireman saying, "I saved all but a few because they chose to stay, and I didn't want to force them to exit the house against their free will." Would the local news herald him as a hero or savior? I hardly think so. 
