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Yes. Many say God would not "force" anyone to be saved (I guess because He's a gentleman?), but after He's been so generous by giving them this choice, He gives them no choice but to burn forever with no chance of escape. I don't understand how I ever believed that.
It is usually pretty easy to track why we believe certain things. I never really believed it, I did "follow along" because it kept me from the punishment of my parents for not mouthing what they expected of me.
You don't understand what UR is. God doesn't have requirements to save us. He loves us. He is love.
What a bunch of crock. Like you said:
Quote:
you don't even understand why Jesus died.
Just what do you think forced Jesus to endure the humiliation, the cross and it's shame....because he felt like it? Like I said before, if UR is true, then Jesus wouldn't have had to plead:
"everything ispossible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will." Mark 14:36
If your child were drowning, what would you require of that child to go snatch them to safety?
Sounds like this question:
Acts 16:30
He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
The possible choices:
UR's answer:
Quote:
God doesn't have requirements to save us.
Jesus'\God's \the truthful answer:
"Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household." Acts 16:31
"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.Mark 16:16
"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."John 3:36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow
You don't get UR at all, and IMO, you don't even understand why Jesus died. He didn't die to give us a choice to make a wise decision. He died to save us from our sins.
I do understand UR quite well. UR theology is a stumbling block the same way the Satan (the Devil, the great deceiver) used Peter to oppose Jesus
Matthew 16:23
Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow
Absolutes? There are 33,000 different Christian denominations. There are NO absolutes.....
Can't you even post something without contradicting yourself ^^^^ compare with vvvvv........which is it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow
There is an absolute with Universalism. Jesus Christ died for the sins of the World. He is the Savior of the World and he will not fail in God's purpose. God is Love. God is forgiving. God is merciful. He is not a sadistic torturer. You reap what you sow, but you are not set on fire for eternity.
Matthew 16:23
Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."
Last edited by twin.spin; 06-04-2010 at 04:47 PM..
Reason: clarity
What a bunch of crock. Like you said: Just what do you think forced Jesus to endure the humiliation, the cross and it's shame....because he felt like it? Like I said before, if UR is true, then Jesus wouldn't have had to plead:
"everything ispossible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will." Mark 14:36
Acts 16:30
He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
The possible choices:
UR's answer:
Jesus'\God's \the truthful answer:
"Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household." Acts 16:31
"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.Mark 16:16
"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."John 3:36
I do understand UR quite well. UR theology is a stumbling block the same way the Satan (the Devil, the great deceiver) used Peter to oppose Jesus
Matthew 16:23
Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."
Can't you even post something without contradicting yourself ^^^^ compare with vvvvv........which is it?
Matthew 16:23
Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."
Great post twin! I agree 100%! UR is one of the biggest lies since satan told Eve to eat the fruit, you surly will not die.
Great post twin! I agree 100%! UR is one of the biggest lies since satan told Eve to eat the fruit, you surly will not die.
Thank INLC.
Satan has always said this to humanity (in effect), "God isn't serious about sin\unbelief. He isn't going to carry out his threat, physical death and not to mention eternal seperation....He gives them no choice but to burn forever with no chance of escape, ahhhh don't believe it."
Thank INLC.
Satan has always said this to humanity (in effect), "God isn't serious about sin\unbelief. He isn't going to carry out his threat, physical death and not to mention eternal seperation....He gives them no choice but to burn forever with no chance of escape, ahhhh don't believe it."
What I don't think you guys understand is that we all are under God's wrath, until we're truly set free. Think you're pure?
No.
Think creation's free yet?
No.
Think people die pure?
No.
It's God's plan to use sons to bring His glory to mankind - and that is not a rapture!! We are to be crucified of this carnality - all of it - we are not spiritually minded (as illustrated by this forum), and until He has come in His fullness creation will continue to wallow in blindness.
Now, where does judgment begin? Who's to be refined first, so that we can give as He gave?
What I don't think you guys understand is that we all are under God's wrath, until we're truly set free. Think you're pure?
No.
Think creation's free yet?
No.
Think people die pure?
No.
It's God's plan to use sons to bring His glory to mankind - and that is not a rapture!! We are to be crucified of this carnality - all of it - we are not spiritually minded (as illustrated by this forum), and until He has come in His fullness creation will continue to wallow in blindness.
Now, where does judgment begin? Who's to be refined first, so that we can give as He gave?
little elmer,
You ask, Think people dying pure? you answered no.
God's Word says otherwise...those who are believers do die pure.
Just what do you think it means to be declared "just" or "justified" by God himself? Or the significance to being able to enter the Most Holy place?
1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
Hebrews 10:14,19
"because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy......Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus,"
Romans 10:10
For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
Acts 13:39 Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.
Romans 8:30
And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
You ask, Think people dying pure? you answered no.
God's Word says otherwise...those who are believers do die pure.
Just what do you think it means to be declared "just" or "justified" by God himself? Or the significance to being able to enter the Most Holy place?
1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
Hebrews 10:14,19
"because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy......Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus,"
Romans 10:10
For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
Acts 13:39 Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.
Romans 8:30
And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
Jesus paid the penalty for our sins and His blood has purified us.
but for what reason are those who do not want be saved endlessly tormented?
Why? Because they rejected Christ.
Quote:
- if I use the analogy with the drowning child, it would be as if you would reanimate the drowning child after it refused to be saved and perished and torture it perpetually, that doesn't make any sense
Those are God's rules. No, I do not believe you, or any person, will ever come even close to understanding God completely. That is a poor reason to reject him though.
but for what reason are those who do not want be saved endlessly tormented? - if I use the analogy with the drowning child, it would be as if you would reanimate the drowning child after it refused to be saved and perished and torture it perpetually, that doesn't make any sense
Sven none of it makes sense , it only makes sense to the religious carnal mind .
Only the religious carnal mind would even attempt to justify it.
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