Should Cincinnati and Dayton share an airport? (Middletown, Mason: maintenance, cost of)

[abr7rmj]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

At one point Delta obviously recognized Cincinnati's location as an eastern transfer point, so much that they grew their operation to completely dominate the airport. This put them in a position to keep competition out. Whenever a competitor would offer lower fares Delta would simply temporarily lowers theirs on equivalent routes until they ran them out.

One of the reasons for their success at CVG was its convenience compared to Chicago O'Hare or Atlanta Hartsfield. Back then Detroit was such a dismal operation noone wanted to go there.

The problems at CVG can be attributed to two main causes.
1) Delta's business decision to pull out of CVG in favor of Detroit after their merger with Northwest. Prior to the merger Northwest had literally invested billions in Detroit as their eastern hub.
2) The Kenton County Airport Board for permitting Delta to dominate the airport to such a degree. While it was happening I am sure they had their chests puffed out at what a great job they were doing. Once the bubble burst CVG is holding the bag, with little in terminal facilities to offer other airlines to move in.

Yes it is a dismal situation.

I wonder if people have given up on Delta to the point that they would no longer run to Delta should it match low prices that another airline attempts to offer. A lot of that was Skymiles-driven since people wanted to inflate their mileage on Delta. But I long ago gave up on my Delta skymiles and don't even consider it anymore.

I think Cincinnati is so weary of Delta's nonsense by now that if Southwest or another airline came in with low fares somewhere and Delta tried to match it, people would hopefully patronize the new airline.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by abr7rmj

I wonder if people have given up on Delta to the point that they would no longer run to Delta should it match low prices that another airline attempts to offer. A lot of that was Skymiles-driven since people wanted to inflate their mileage on Delta. But I long ago gave up on my Delta skymiles and don't even consider it anymore.

I think Cincinnati is so weary of Delta's nonsense by now that if Southwest or another airline came in with low fares somewhere and Delta tried to match it, people would hopefully patronize the new airline.

I think you make a very good point. I was commenting more on back in their heyday when Delta/Comair had so many flights out of CVG they not only had flights to many places a competitor would fly to but were willing to undercut the fares.

The Skymiles comment is also valid. Again back in the heyday I would fly Delta to Japan via Portland a couple of times a year. That racked up some seious miles combined with my domestic trips which averaged a couple a month. Oddly I used very few of the miles myself, but gave them to my kids for vacation flights, etc.

I do feel Cincinnati is fed up with Delta. The biggest problem I see is lack of terminal facilities conducive to another airline coming in here with more than a handful of flights.

Unless I am mistaken, I believe the fact Delta paid for Terminal 3 gives them rights to it. Even though Concourse A is shut down I do not believe Delta will agree to another airline using it for less than exhorbitant fees. Why should they? When is the last time you saw a corporation agree to help the competition, even though they shafted us?

[BostonToKC]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

Unless I am mistaken, I believe the fact Delta paid for Terminal 3 gives them rights to it. Even though Concourse A is shut down I do not believe Delta will agree to another airline using it for less than exhorbitant fees. Why should they? When is the last time you saw a corporation agree to help the competition, even though they shafted us?

The Cincinnati Enquirer has reported fairly recently that Concourse A is being refurbished and will be reactivated in mid-2012. All Terminal 2 airlines (non-Delta) will be moving there at that time.

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by BostonToKC

The Cincinnati Enquirer has reported fairly recently that Concourse A is being refurbished and will be reactivated in mid-2012. All Terminal 2 airlines (non-Delta) will be moving there at that time.

Please cite that Enqurer article which I obviously missed. I would be interested in what they say concerning how this was accomplished.

[BostonToKC]

Here is the press release from CVG's website:

CVG | News Release

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by BostonToKC

Here is the press release from CVG's website:

CVG | News Release

Thanks, I had not found that before. I only question the $31 million amount required to renovate Concourse A? Didn't seem all that rundown to me, particularly when compared to Terminal 2. I wonder how much is a payoff to Delta to relinquish their rights.

But regardless, it is good news. Opening up Concourse A to other airlines should be a positive. I hope they can get CVG moving in a positive direction again.

Hopefully we will see the day when Delta is only 1 of 8 to 12 airlines serving the airport. That may be when we are not subject to the type of disaster Delta fostered on us.

This is the reason I believe other airports, such as Pittsburgh, have not experienced the devestation CVG has.

BTW, the Pittsburgh airport, although there is also a military airport involved, sits on more acreage than Chicago O'Hare and Atlanta Hartsfield combined.

[abr7rmj]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

Thanks, I had not found that before. I only question the $31 million amount required to renovate Concourse A? Didn't seem all that rundown to me, particularly when compared to Terminal 2. I wonder how much is a payoff to Delta to relinquish their rights.

But regardless, it is good news. Opening up Concourse A to other airlines should be a positive. I hope they can get CVG moving in a positive direction again.

Hopefully we will see the day when Delta is only 1 of 8 to 12 airlines serving the airport. That may be when we are not subject to the type of disaster Delta fostered on us.

This is the reason I believe other airports, such as Pittsburgh, have not experienced the devestation CVG has.

BTW, the Pittsburgh airport, although there is also a military airport involved, sits on more acreage than Chicago O'Hare and Atlanta Hartsfield combined.

And, to no one's surprise, we're still among the highest airfares in the nation. When will Delta stop treating Cincinnati like this?

CVG airfare 2nd highest in nation | Cincinnati.com | cincinnati.com

Highest Average Fares
1. Memphis, TN - $476
2. Cincinnati, OH - $476
3. Washington Dulles - $475
4. Huntsville, AL - $473
5. Houston Bush, TX - $473

Lowest Average Fares
1. Atlantic City, NJ - $205
2. Long Beach, CA - $247
3. Ft. Lauderdale, FL - $266
4. Bellingham, WA - $267
5. Orlando, FL - $280

Interestingly, four of the five lowest fare cities are heavy tourist destinations. And at least three of them are a major market's secondary airport.

As for Dulles, I would imagine its high fares are inconsequential to the mostly elected officials and their staffs who fly out of there since it's taxpayers footing the bill. And DC's two other major airports mean business or leisure travelers aren't being held hostage by the Dulles fares.

[kjbrill]

Yes, CVG is still the highest.But this link indicates the others are rapidly closing the gap. All it amounts to is the airline industry is struggling, and any short term fixes are highly unlikely.

Air fares climb at Dayton, other regional airports

[kjbrill]

One of the things which continues to frost me is the lack of transparency involving our local Kenyon County Aitrport Board. We hear they are working to open up Concourse A of Terminal 3 to non-Delta flights. We also hear they will be spending $31 million to refurbish it. This azll sounds positive.

It is what we don't hear which bothers me. What, if anything, did they have to give Delta to open up Concourse A to competitors? What is the $31 million refurfishment of Concourse A expected to accomplish since it is already

[kjbrill]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

One of the things which continues to frost me is the lack of transparency involving our local Kenyon County Aitrport Board. We hear they are working to open up Concourse A of Terminal 3 to non-Delta flights. We also hear they will be spending $31 million to refurbish it. This azll sounds positive.

It is what we don't hear which bothers me. What, if anything, did they have to give Delta to open up Concourse A to competitors? What is the $31 million refurfishment of Concourse A expected to accomplish since it is already

Oops hit the return key too soon. My point is what has the Airport Board mortgaged the future against? This $31 million, is it real money they already have or a speculation against the future, with a debt? These are the type of details we seem to not receive.